Making a brass infill plane (Hattori Hanzo, DP)

[thetyreman]

wow what a great looking plane, would be good to see it in use as andy T says.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Thank you tyreman, hold that thought update incoming...

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

I made a short video demonstrating the box and plane in use, there are also some short clips of some of the making processes at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAc3UonpC60

Not sure how to embed youtube videos, is embeding not allowed?
[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]

 

[AndyT]

Happy to help!
Just put the video number on its own between a pair of <youtube> tags like this:

[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]

and it shows up embedded:

[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]


And thanks for showing some shavings - it does look very nice in use!

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Thanks Andy ccasion5:

 

[IWW]

........ It wasn't something I jumped into head first, like I mentioned earlier I'd been considering making a metal plane for some years and put a large amount of research into it before starting. I can honestly say this is the first time I have taken raw metal materials and turned them into something. I had absolutely no clue at the start how it would turn out.......

Well, Hattori, I too am in awe (& envious) of the result of your very first attempt at an infill. I thought I was a bit foolishly ambitious with my first attempt by going for a "coffin" shape, but you've shown us that aiming high is just fine as long as you go about it well-prepared with a bit of research on the topic! My first plane took years (literally) to complete and although it is a fairly good 'user', it does have some flaws that are obvious to anyone who's made a plane or two:

I started that plane before the interweb & forums like this had reached their stride, and my 'research' was limited to a few magazine articles, so I was flying by the seat of my pants. I also opted for a 55 deg. bed, and added a cap-iron (making it was another learning-curve), which is of debatable value for a high cutting angle like this, but I was also ignorant of the subtleties of cap-irons back then. :?

The worst thing about making a workable plane on your first try is that the slide into addiction is steeper. I've made quite a few more planes since #1, and gotten a little bit better at it, but perfection so far eludes me. One of my problems down here is the availability of suitable brass. The only alloy that is readily available in Oz (in sizes suited to plane-making), is a machinable grade that does not take well to cold-forming. The grade you used is far better, and should take the amount of peening required for dovetailing & riveting very well. This is a comparison of the 'machinable' grade (C38500) with H62, which is the Chinese equivalent (roughly) of CZ 108:

The 385 (on left) started flaking & splitting after very little hammering, while the H62 could be pounded out to a thin sheet with no sign of failure. Fortunately, the way plane dovetails go together, you can make sure most of the metal moving is done with the steel & not the brass:

I've used both mild steel & gauge-plate for soles. Gauge-plate is far nicer to use because it comes clean & accurately dimensioned. Both peen nicely; I expected the O1 might work-harden if hammered hard, but it doesn't seem to mind at all. It is better to file than mild steel, imo, because being slightly harder, it doesn't crumb as easily as mild steel does (is that what D-W refers to as "pinning?). There is nothing quite as annoying as having a large crumb jamb in the teeth of the file as you are getting close to level, and making a deep score-mark across the brass surface!

Anyway, great to see folk are still beavering away at infills, & even better to see examples that don't slavishly follow traditional shapes (like mine :roll: )

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Ian thank you for a very informative post and for the tips on brass grades and steel. I too found out the peining problems with different grades of brass which will become apparent soon. It was just sheer luck that I ordered CZ108 brass for my first plane and only later found out it is best for cold forming. It is now the only grade I would consider for plane making.

Your plane is stunning! what wood did you use for the infill? it has lovely figuring.

I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out. Like you say I've been bitten by the bug for sure.

Thanks again.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Also, it didn't take me long to start a new project!

Thanks for all the comments on the last one chaps.

 

[rxh]

I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out. Like you say I've been bitten by the bug for sure.

Thanks again.

I made the bend in this cap iron by heating the end with a gas blowlamp then clamping it in the vice and thumping with a lump hammer.

 

[IWW]

....... what wood did you use for the infill? it has lovely figuring....

A wood that will be unobtainable in your part of the world, I'm afraid. The early colonists called it "She-oak", meant in the derogatory sense, i.e., that it's inferior to genuine oak. It's proper name is Allocasuarina torulosa. It's a very dense wood, with a very prominent medullary ray figure, as you noticed, rather fissile & difficult (& slow!) to dry in large sections, not easy to work, but rasps & sands to a very fine finish. It has a lovely tactile quality like the Rosewoods, which is why I like using it for all sorts of handles:

....... I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out...

I've seen a few ways of going about it - the method rxh just posted is one way (with or without heating). After considering my situation, I decided to try a fairly crude approach. I'd just acquired a small 'stick' welder, so I cobbled up this jig:

As you can see, I was having much trouble sorting out my amperage! It's pretty ugly, but it does the job. The bars are 13mm & placed 32mm apart, and the loose "dolly" is a scrap of 3/4" brass (I've since found a scrap of 7/8" steel that I use now). The dimensions were sheer guesswork, but seem to fit the bill nicely.

My preferred material for cap-irons is ordinary (308?) stainless steel, 3mm is ok, but 2.5mm is my preferred thickness when I can get it. It easily tolerates the amount of bending required without heating :

The pics should be self-explanatory.

Setting it up in the vise for the bend takes a bit of fiddling, if you are like me and only have two hands. Tying it up with duct tape is my solution. This is a bend for a skewed iron being set up:

After bending, I clean up the inside of the bend on the grinder, and bring the outside of the bend to the desired angle by filing. I started only making single bends, but with thick (3mm) cap-irons, you get a bit too much flexing of thin blades, so I tried doing a 'double' bend to make something more like the old Stanley/Record examples. It turned out to be easier than I expected. This is the finished skewed iron (before drilling & tapping for the screw):

Oh dear, I was hesitating to encourage your addiction, but I think you are well & truly on the slippery slope. Let's just say you are being warned by a fellow sufferer....

 

[MikeG.]

Also, it didn't take me long to start a new project!..........

Don't suppose you could save up all of the brass chippings/ shavings/ dust, could you?

 

[sploo]

Some stunning work here gents - many thanks for documenting it for us to see.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Thanks for the tips on the cap irons chaps. I'd though of something similar to your method Ian so may give it a try in the future.

rxh that cap iron looks great, what thickness steel did you use for it?

MikeG I can try to save the filings but not sure if they would be any use and most likely to be mixed with a load of wood chippings too

Thanks for the comment sploo

Finally Ian wow! that is a beautiful collection you've made. You must be very proud of them they are stunning. How many years of work is there?
I thought that infill looked a bit like oak but it's figuring was slightly different, its a beautiful piece though.

 

[IWW]

...... How many years of work is there?......

Hattori, I started my first infill about 2000, but due to difficulties with the build and work pressures, it languished for long periods at various stages & didn't make a shaving until about 10 years later! I made a couple more over the next few years, but kept being dragged back to my old day job, until I managed to achieve full retirement about 3 years ago. The pace has picked up since then, and between making planes for myself & others, I've gotten a bit slicker at it, but it still takes me a lot longer to make a plane than Spiers or Norris would have allowed any of their workers! :wink:

So your build was pretty quick by my standards. I think it's terrific that not only did you manage to make a good working plane first up, but you made your own, unique design. A couple of planes I've made have no exact precedent, but you can easily se the genetic make-up. I think anyone who's been thinking about making a plane or two should be inspired by your thread & get cracking..

I'm currently working on a (skewed-blade) panel plane myself, in between other, more pressing jobs. The body is banged-up & I'm waiting on some wood for the stuffing. It's a ways off completion yet, but I'll do a post on it when I get it to the first shavings stage, and can be confident it's going to work. My main concern is fitting the skewed lever-cap. Fitting any lever cap is a bit fraught, you only get one go at it, but the skew adds some extra frisson! :|
Cheers,
Ian

 

[rxh]

rxh that cap iron looks great, what thickness steel did you use for it?

Thanks - it is 3/16" thick. Here is a photo of the plane it went into and its construction is described in this thread:
infill-smoothing-plane-project-t69460.html

I congratulate you on your excellent work and the very comprehensive description of it. I'm looking forward to seeing your next one.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Wow! another beautiful plane, the dark red colour against the rich brass is striking. Not had a chance to read through your thread yet but am definitely going to set some time aside at the weekend to do so!
thanks for sharing it's excellent.

Ian I'm looking forward to seeing your skew mouth plane. I've thought about making a shooting plane with a skew mouth/blade but realise it's quite an undertaking so will hold off for now. got too many other projects to get finished first

talking of other projects here's a little sneak peek so far, there has been a lot of filing and I've not even got onto the steel work yet!

End dovetails

Bridge cupid bow, only half done.

 

[IWW]

Looks suspiciously like an embryonic mitre plane . :wink:

OK, thanks to some rainy weather (at last!) driving me into the shed, the pace is picking up somewhat on the panel plane, so there may be shavings to show before too many more days pass....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

I have a feeling you may have used one before

Finally finished the bridge.

I'm really pleased with how it turned out. I can start to assemble the body of the plane now.

I've still got the sole of the plane to make yet and there is a lot of work involved with that, even more so than the body.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

I've started work on the sole and its tough going! I'm using O1 tool steel this time round.

These are the initial cuts that start to form the mouth. There was a lot of filing involved after.

Here you can see the sole is made from two pieces of steel with the mouth cut into the left hand piece and the relief cut onto the right hand piece.
There is also a V joint which aligns both pieces together. I think traditionally this would have been a tongue and groove joint but I thought a V joint would be easier. As it turns out it was just as much if not more work!

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Finally the sole dovetails are nearly done. I could at last do a test fit of the sole onto the body.
Getting the two pieces of the sole to align and make the dovetails a tight fit has been a pain staking task.
It was a case of fine adjustments to each dovetail with a file then test fitting after each try.
All I need to do now is fine adjust the depth of the dovetails to get the sole to seat flat, again lots of test fits until it's right.

The split dovetail with the mouth opening had to be a perfect fit. Too tight and it will distort the body, too loose would cause gaps in the V joint and play in the mouth.

Amazingly it's come out really well with a mouth opening of just under 1mm.
I may have to open this up a little yet but I'd like to keep it under 1.5mm if possible, the finer the mouth the finer a shaving it should produce but too small and the plane won't take a cut at all.

I've still to shape the sole and a few other things but after that is the dreadful task of peining it all together, Wish me luck.