Lorries with a hexagon logo livery

[Trevanion]

I don't do a massive commute every day, about 15 mile each way on rural roads with some nasty bends and narrows. About 5 miles into my journey I without fail end up behind this blue Fiat Panda that refuses to go over 35MPH (Even does 35MPH in 30MPH zones but that's something else). Now, I like to think I'm a patient and compassionate driver and I always wait until it's absolutely clear to overtake any person and get on with my day, that doesn't mean everyone else is patient though. The sheer amount of close shaves I've seen happen just because this person cannot drive over 35MPH on 60MPH roads is ridiculous, the backup can be over 10 cars sometimes, dangerous overtakes on blind bends aplenty on a school bus route and I've literally seen tractors with full silage trailers overtake the person #-o It doesn't bother me too much as I leave in plenty of time but everyone else is in a rush to get where they want to go and will take risks.

Now you could argue this person is driving the best of their ability and as fast as they feel safe to do, but realistically if this person was not on the road there would be less congestion and a lot less near misses where an accident is almost inevitable in my opinion. If you're not confident on the road you shouldn't be on it, for your own safety and the safety of everyone else on the road. You really can't argue it's the fault of all the other drivers because if this single person was not on the road they would all be on their journey without any trouble at all.

The Blue Fiat Panda is a bit of a running joke with the locals anyway :lol:

 

[Nigel Burden]

If you're travelling in lane one, then there's nothing to stop a lorry driver from overtaking you in lane two. This sort of behaviour is, unfortunately all too common. It constitutes dangerous driving and should be dealt with harshly. Unfortunately, without dash cam footage there's not much that can be done about it unless the police witness it, and hopefully pull them in and throw the book at them.

I had a lorry driver use the right hand ( arrowed right turn) lane to turn left cutting across the offside of my car. He was only quicker than me because he happened to arrive at the mini roundabout just as the gate opened up and he was still moving, where as I was only just moving off. I reported the incident to the police, but they said all they could do was to mention to the firm that they'd had a complaint about one of their drivers.

Nigel.

 

[Nigel Burden]

Trevanion, in your case that is unreasonable to travel at such a low speed. If it is safe, one should endeavour to drive up to the speed limit if, by not doing so you cause inconvenience to other drivers. Indeed, a learner would fail a driving test for doing so if it were inconveniencing other drivers because it causes danger. However, in the Steves case there was absolutely no excusing the lorry drivers behaviour, he could overtake in lane two. Also, the car was described as being decrepit, so some allowance has to be given for that.

Nigel.

 

[Steve Maskery]

the car was described as being decrepit

LOL! True, I did say that. But I meant that the aircon no longer works, the central locking has packed up and there are hub caps missing. It is a 15 year old Kia Picanta and has lived most, if not all of its life outside. The paintwork is dull. That kind of decrepit.

A bit of a banger (the car that is, not...)

But it recently passed its MOT with an advisory for one tyre which she had replaced. So all roadworthy, just not exactly a head-turner.

 

[Nigel Burden]

A bit like my sons sixteen year old Seat Ibiza. Front passenger central locking packed up and the door could not be opened either from the inside or out. MOT failure, £ 400 plus to fix, time to say goodbye. Should have told me when it started playing up. Never mind, lessen hopefully learned, but probably not. :roll:

Nigel.

 

[Lons]

Despite all I said about that lorry driver and still maintain that Steve and his friend were completely correct I also agree with Trevanion.

I live in a rural village through which runs a main A road which is winding with sharp bends and very busy, it's also because of the bends, a magnet for groups of thrill seeking motorcyclists and gets a steady stream of tractors.
I travel the road regularly and there are a number of local snail paced small cars driven by very senior men and women who barely reach the heady speed of 40 and like Trevanion says often continue at the same speed through the village 30mph limit.

It's bl**dy infuriating to be in a queue of traffic behind them, even more so as they seem to keep their right foot at precicely the same pressure going up the hills and slowing to 25 - 30 and as there are limited opportunities to overtake due to oncoming traffic people take risks. They're wrong to do that but it's a fact of life and anyone who says slow drivers don't cause danger is not correct imho.

Tractors I can live with, they need to do a job and the odd one does pull over into a layby to let traffic pass but they are also extremely dangerous especially with trailers spewing out mud, sileage or worse or when towing machinery with sharp blades.
However they should be banned from the roads on bank holidays when inevitably, as happened again today not many miles from here one of them is involved in a serious accident which completely blocks the A1 and leaves several people fighting for life or worse. Not of course the tractor driver who is better protected just like the HGV drivers.

 

[Lons]

A bit like my sons sixteen year old Seat Ibiza. Front passenger central locking packed up and the door could not be opened either from the inside or out. MOT failure, £ 400 plus to fix, time to say goodbye. Should have told me when it started playing up. Never mind, lessen hopefully learned, but probably not. :roll:

Nigel.

:lol: :lol:
Nearly asked why he was driving at 16 then read it again.

 

[Trevanion]

However they should be banned from the roads on bank holidays when inevitably, as happened again today not many miles from here one of them is involved in a serious accident which completely blocks the A1 and leaves several people fighting for life or worse. Not of course the tractor driver who is better protected just like the HGV drivers.

I think one of the weirdest parts of the law is that you can take a fairly straightforward test at 16 years old to drive a tractor, once passed there is no limit on what you can drive so long as it's a tractor. This includes a 300HP tractor towing 35 tonnes of grass. I'm 22 and I can't even tow anything over 3.5 tonnes including trailer and vehicle without taking a seriously difficult test that you can't take until you're 21. I'm glad the trailer test is there as it will eventually stop mid-aged morons from being able to tow heavy caravans without a clue fishtailing down the motorway, but it really doesn't make any sense when it comes to the tractor test.

There was an accident last week where two silage tractors collided on a very nasty single track bend, one tractor got snapped in two and one ended up rolling down a steep hill off the road into a field with a full load. I know for a fact that one of the drivers was actually 15 years old and they've lied successfully about who was actually in charge of the vehicle. Sadly a blind eye gets turned around here as well.

 

[Lons]

I'm a lot older Trevanion so this year needed to pass a medical to retain my C1 and continue driving our motorhome which is 3.8t plus of course the little car at about 1 t and I have to agree there are some seriously flawed anomalies with the UK driver licencing system though much better than some other countries.

Apart from agricultural vehicles for example I passed a motorcycle test at 16 and driving test at 17, I had a then high powered mortorcycle for a short while but never rode one again and always found it rabsurd that legally had I been so inclined I could still at any time go out on a bike capable of 180mph and 0-60 in 3 seconds. :shock:

The issue with caravans is not so simple and usually little to do with weight these days. You could assuming you hold a standard B licence just as easily tow one up to your 3.5t combined limit. e.g. a decent medium sized family car will have a GVW of around 2t which leaves you 1.5t for tthe caravan MAM and there are numerous decent sized lightweight vans under that weight e.g a Swift Sprite Major 4 berth at 7.5m and 1437kg so under limit and well within the recommended max caravan MAM weight of 85% of tow car.

Most of the "mid-aged morons" you mention will know exactly what they are doing, will be members of clubs and will have spent many thousands of £s on their outfits. They are likely to have bought noseweight indicators fitted tyre safety bands and will maintain and care for their investment and are much more likely to drive sensibly than the average inexperienced driver in his early twenties. That's not saying you are that BTW !!
My considerable experience towing and working for a major caravan manufacturer suggests it's often younger families who can't afford newer outfits and those who hire for 2 week holidays without the necessary training who get into trouble.

The real problem with caravans apart from inexperienced drivers of any age is ignorance or carelessness in loading and weight distribution. Add this to a powerful car / light van combination and driver who tends to drive too fast and you get problems.

BTW all caravans and trailers will "wag" a bit when being towed that doesn't necessarily mean they are losing control and most newish caravans as well as a lot of cars have built in electronic dampening controls which apply brakes to individual wheels when snaking is detected.
My current Merc and the large Elddis twin axle I had until a year ago are typical examples of those.

 

[rafezetter]

....
Pretty much knocks everything said about "she's too slow - causing a danger" etc etc into a cocked hat, wouldn't you say?

Um...no. Simply because any logical extension would then ask the question...'Why is she/he driving so slowly ?' Is it because they are unsure of themselves? Other road users ? Poor eyesight ? Poor reaction times ? Drunk ?

There comes a point when any sane person has to ask the question 'Should this person still be driving?'. If you think that the answer is 'Yes..regardless'...then please let me know when you're next out on the road so I can stay at home.

No I dont think "yes regardless" - but no-one and I mean no-one can make that judgement call, and only the police have the power to pull them over and ask - there could be a myriad of reasons why someone is driving that slowly, that you and most people just can't envisage as a possible reality other than the ones you quoted above, and I say that because if you could you'd not have even made that post (unless you wanted to take a public dig at me which always seems a possibilty nowadays.)

- person on board that's sick / being sick / in absolute agony and the driver is being careful not to jostle the passenger.
- driver themself is sick and trying to get to hospital.
- driver has 3rd finger on left hand missing due to TS accident and is "too northern" to call an ambulance to go to hospital.
- Driver has popped his back and is admitting himself to A&E.
- Driver is having car trouble and either has no coverage to call out green flag - or is close to home / work and is trying to nurse the car to a place he can leave it.

I live less than 2 miles from Bristols second largest hospital, calling an ambulance would take far far longer and it's not life threatening. (I'm also not a **** about using the ambulance service when I don't need to)

All but the missing finger have happened to me personally in the last two years, so imagine what other issues and legitimate reasons a driver or passenger in said car might have for the vehicle going slowly.

"life happens".

Shall I continue RogerS? Or do you wish to consider expanding your extremely limited viewpoint and concede you just don't bloody know the WHY, of what might be happening in the car in front to make it be going at "less than expected*" speed.

*expected being the operative word here - not REQUIRED by the highway code, just "expected" by you and every other unthinking, impatient, narrow minded "GTFOOMW" road user.

YOU DO NOT KNOW - and neither do I, but I'm able to consider possibilities other than "they shouldn't be on the road" and not be a **** about the situation.

(despite what many beleive on this forum, I'm actually a very philosophical laid back guy about most things "change what you can, forget what you can't" - or you'll have a heart attack for your troubles and still be right where you were before.)

Frankly I don't care who you are - no-ones time is that precious that getting to where you want to be 2 minutes earlier is life altering except in an ambulance... and even though they have the most reason, EVEN THEY don't drive like that truck driver did.

The difference time saved of an extra 10 miles per hour (60 > 70 or 70 > 80) even when taken over a distance of 125 miles is just..... 14 minutes give or take, check for yourself.

Break that down to a local journey of 5 miles or less and you're talking SECONDS.

What was your point again?

 

[rafezetter]

I don't do a massive commute every day, about 15 mile each way on rural roads with some nasty bends and narrows. About 5 miles into my journey I without fail end up behind this blue Fiat Panda that refuses to go over 35MPH (Even does 35MPH in 30MPH zones but that's something else). Now, I like to think I'm a patient and compassionate driver and I always wait until it's absolutely clear to overtake any person and get on with my day, that doesn't mean everyone else is patient though. The sheer amount of close shaves I've seen happen just because this person cannot drive over 35MPH on 60MPH roads is ridiculous, the backup can be over 10 cars sometimes, dangerous overtakes on blind bends aplenty on a school bus route and I've literally seen tractors with full silage trailers overtake the person #-o It doesn't bother me too much as I leave in plenty of time but everyone else is in a rush to get where they want to go and will take risks.

Now you could argue this person is driving the best of their ability and as fast as they feel safe to do, but realistically if this person was not on the road there would be less congestion and a lot less near misses where an accident is almost inevitable in my opinion. If you're not confident on the road you shouldn't be on it, for your own safety and the safety of everyone else on the road. You really can't argue it's the fault of all the other drivers because if this single person was not on the road they would all be on their journey without any trouble at all.

The Blue Fiat Panda is a bit of a running joke with the locals anyway :lol:

There's no "trouble" trevanion - it just takes a bit longer, make allowances, change the route, whatever.

"problem" solved.

If you and the locals know it's going to be there why do you continue the same routine? "definition of madness" and all that.

I worked with a guy who was always the first one in - I asked him why and he told me his "secret"

He left for workearlier to "beat most of the traffic" - he got to work relaxed, had a coffee, read the paper and had a good day. He didnt get to work with seconds to spare because he didn't leave enough time, and had to go stright from a stressful communte to his desk with the same stress which then affected the rest of his day.

I'm sat here wondering what it is about the car journeys of all the ppl who've complained about "slow drivers" in their daily driving, that makes it so vitally important that the other people on the road "GTFOOMW".

I really REALLY am, coz I don't get it.

 

[Trevanion]

There's no "trouble" trevanion - it just takes a bit longer, make allowances, change the route, whatever.

"problem" solved.

If you and the locals know it's going to be there why do you continue the same routine? "definition of madness" and all that.

You obviously haven't spent too much time out of the city :lol: There is only one route from A to B, we're not fortuitous enough to have more than one road! I suppose you could say there is more than one route but a 10-mile detour isn't pleasant, isn't good for the car, the environment nor my wallet. As a matter of fact there was an incident on this road not to long ago where a horse transporter smashed through a bridge and blocked the road, the clear up took hours and your options of detour were an 8-mile slog back up the mountain, bunch of fairly nasty, narrow roads and right around onto another main road before you end up the other side of the incident. Or there was option B where you spent 4 miles on single track lanes with hairpin bends and going over two fords (Rivers between you and me) before you got to the other side of the incident. Of course, a lot of people went for option B and it was pure chaos trying to pass each other when there was a backload of 10 or so each side.

I've had city people here before "So is this a one-way road then?" before we encounter the massive milk tanker, the look on their faces was priceless! :lol:

He left for workearlier to "beat most of the traffic" - he got to work relaxed, had a coffee, read the paper and had a good day. He didnt get to work with seconds to spare because he didn't leave enough time.

That's me, consistently around 5-10 minutes early per day. Mainly because I like turning everything on in the morning and making a start with whatever is on the bench at the time and as you say, it's less stressful than trying to rush in (Not that that matters too much, you might still get stuck behind cattle being walked on the road :lol

...

I can totally see what you're saying Lons, Agree with most of it. I've done enough runs with a car transporter trailer to know they move around a little at certain speeds but what I was on about was the blatant one foot one way one foot the other way careening down the motorway we're all familiar with. :lol:

My generation is more likely to buy a clapped out, old banger of a van a lump a mattress in the back though! Far cheaper! :wink:

 

[John Brown]

I think it's a tricky question. We drove through a lot of Canada last year, and despite driving exactly at the speed limit, we pretty much permanently had a massive truck feet from our rear bumper. This on the single lane sections of the trans Canada highway.
It is intimidating, but I think part of the problem is that virtually nobody sticks to the 2 second gap rule, so that driver behind you might just think they're driving normally, whereas I feel like I'm being tailgated.
Drive on that section of the M4 with the chevrons sometime, and see how many drivers leave a 2 chevron gap.
Also, I get a bit sick of hearing that slower drivers "cause" accidents, because of the frustration experiencec by others. Some people are better drivers than others, and even more think they are, but if a driver is not as supremely confident and cavalier as you, do you really believe that tailgating, hooting or light flashing will improve the situation?

 

[RogerS]

....
Pretty much knocks everything said about "she's too slow - causing a danger" etc etc into a cocked hat, wouldn't you say?

Um...no. Simply because any logical extension would then ask the question...'Why is she/he driving so slowly ?' Is it because they are unsure of themselves? Other road users ? Poor eyesight ? Poor reaction times ? Drunk ?

There comes a point when any sane person has to ask the question 'Should this person still be driving?'. If you think that the answer is 'Yes..regardless'...then please let me know when you're next out on the road so I can stay at home.

.....
What was your point again?

My point was and I will re-iterate it before you go off on one of your rants again without bothering to read what someone has posted..

My point is that there are some people who, for various reasons, should not be driving on the roads. Capisce ?

 

[RogerS]

If you're travelling in lane one, then there's nothing to stop a lorry driver from overtaking you in lane two. This sort of behaviour is, unfortunately all too common. It constitutes dangerous driving and should be dealt with harshly. Unfortunately, without dash cam footage there's not much that can be done about it unless the police witness it, and hopefully pull them in and throw the book at them.

I had a lorry driver use the right hand ( arrowed right turn) lane to turn left cutting across the offside of my car. He was only quicker than me because he happened to arrive at the mini roundabout just as the gate opened up and he was still moving, where as I was only just moving off. I reported the incident to the police, but they said all they could do was to mention to the firm that they'd had a complaint about one of their drivers.

Nigel.

I may have misunderstood Steve's situation but my understanding is that both the car with him and his friend in AND the lorry driver were both coming off at the same exit.

I suspect that the driver wasn't concentrating until almost too late when he/she nearly ran into the back of the car.

Steve ..if you do decide to go to the company, I think you'd get better 'mileage' if you both went in.

 

[RogerS]

..... whereas I feel like I'm being tailgated.
...

I know where you are coming from. I try and reason their lack of distance to being much, much higher up than I and so can 'read' the road that much sooner ergo be able to respond and brake in time. That's the rational part of my brain talking.

The 'emotional' part is screaming "Get the **** out of my boot" !

Often get 'White Van Man' sticking on our tail when we're out in the S2000. Pointless trying to out-distance him simply because most of the roads round here are twisty and unlike many folk, I don't think I am Superman with X-ray vision and can see the walkers in the road round that blind bend and so drive like a loonie. Putting the brakes on is simply a red rag to WVM.

No, there is one sure way of getting them to keep their distance and that is drive as if you're drunk.

 

[Lons]

I can totally see what you're saying Lons, Agree with most of it. I've done enough runs with a car transporter trailer to know they move around a little at certain speeds but what I was on about was the blatant one foot one way one foot the other way careening down the motorway we're all familiar with. :lol:

My generation is more likely to buy a clapped out, old banger of a van a lump a mattress in the back though! Far cheaper! :wink:

Yeah there are always some idiots who will do that of course just as there are snaking HGVs while the driver is drinking from his flask or cars all over the road while the driver is on his phone or having a heated "discussion" with his passengers. We've all seen regular examples of those.

Just going back to current driving licence and motorhomes, the manufacturers produce the vast majority of these with a maximum weight of 3.5t to accommodate the limits, they're not stupid when it comes to sales and hiring and the same is true of caravans where because modern cars are becoming lighter they need to reduce weights to suit.

Nothing wrong with a clapped out old van and mattress as long as they're roadworthy, that includes the mattress btw. :wink: I was 22 once upon a time, enjoy it as it's soon forgotten once you aquire a family, mortgage etc.

 

[Lons]

just don't bloody know the WHY, of what might be happening in the car in front to make it be going at "less than expected*" speed.

That of course is true if you're in a strange area and encounter a car crawling but in my experience when you do pass that vehicle the driver will be exactly what you expect to see, often with his / her nose almost on the windscreen, hands with a death grip on the wheel and a staring terrified face - go on be honest at least to yourself! :lol:
I would also counter your argument that a driver might be ill driving himself to A&E. If he's ill someone else should be driving as he's impaired and possibly unsafe! Someone else driving him there would be quicker and those seconds difference might mean a lot if his illness needs urgent treatment.

A very different situation where I live just as others like Roger and Trevanion with that Panda. The culprits around here are well known, totally oblivious to other road users and either bloody minded enough or lack courtesy to to pull over and let the queues pass. The only time you don't see then is when it's dark as they're too scared or too blind to drive at night.
Some of the drivers I'm talking about shouldn't be driving but can because of the easy to cheat system of self declaration on line licence renewal but that's another argument! :roll:

We had to sort that issue with 2 of my own family members.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well. I've just been along to the offices of NFT. It's an enormous depot.

I didn't have an appointment, of course, but I got to reception and rang the bell. A nice young man asked if he could help.

"Yes please. On Saturday night one of your drivers tried to kill me and that is not hyperbole". I think it's always a good idea to throw in a posh word, especially if it's pronounced correctly, don't you?

I gave him the 20 second version and he said he would find out who needs to deal with this.

Within a very few minutes I was sitting across a table with the fleet driver training manager, Keith. I explained the situation, he wrote it all down. He was empathetic, professional, concerned and generally exactly the sort of person you would want to be dealing with.

He explained that they have 75 of their own lorries and 65 of them have dash-cams. The gate has ANPR, so it can see who came and went in the time slot. From my description of the logo he could tell it was one of the older trailers.

He has promised to do his best to identify the driver and will then download the footage. If he finds it, the driver will be disciplined, or sacked if there is previous history, too. They recently sacked a driver (agency) for this sort of behaviour.

I was very gruntled with his attitude, actually, it was an excellent response.

 

[Nigel Burden]

A good response from the companies fleet driver training officer.

On the subject of whether some drivers should be taken off the road, definitely yes.
I am a retired ADI and ex qualified observer for the IAM.

About three years ago I had an elderly man come to me for some help as he'd had an accident in Weymouth where he lived and had to take a driver assessment which would be in Poole. The issue was apparently that, although he knew Poole, he hadn't driven there for years and according to his wife needed to learn the roads that were likely to be used by the assessor.

It soon became apparent that his wife was doing the looking for him :shock: . When I asked why? she said that he couldn't see too well on the left side.

After a couple of sessions I felt compelled to advise them that there was no way that he would pass this assessment as his wife was looking for him and he was unaware of other road users around him cutting across other drivers on roundabouts. Even with help he didn't improve. I got the impression that, although they didn't want to give up using their car, the wife didn't drive, it confirmed what they had actually feared. After discussing the issues they agreed that the consequences of him continuing to drive could be dire for them or some one else.

Nigel.