Looking for help with timber buying for a workbench project

[CMax]

Hi all,

I'm going to build a workbench based on Richard Maguire's English Workbench (Nicholson). I'm based in Stafford and looking for the best option for timber. My first consideration was SYP. I built a Nicholson many years ago out of that but can't find anything remotely affordable in the sizes I want now. Some people recommend Unsorted Redwood, which I can't seem to find anywhere either. So, I'm thinking of going down the construction timber route.

Would C24 "Black Forest" Easy Edge be a decent option? I have a local timber merchant who has what I want with regards to dimensions, but would this be really horrible stuff to work with? Product here.

 

[Adam W.]

Nicholson benches are quick built work benches, constructed with cheap material and C24 should be OK.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd reckon Richards bench might be more than a tad fancier than what might be in some old books.
Without a workbench?, laminating those easy edged timbers will be a challenge in regards to effort required, without some mechanical tooling necessary.
Those edges are the opposite of what you want to end up with, should you be laminating timbers or edge joining them.
That's likely about 1/4" or something along those lines which will need be planed off to produce an edge joint, and it might not stay straight.
Should you have knots to deal with is another bit of work you might find tedious
(without a bench with say a electric planer or sawing with the bandsaw)

However that might be the cheapest stuff you might be able to get by far,
others will likely suggest better, as I've never bought timber,
I guess skip planed roughsawn would be available, should the price differ much,
guessing so and only available in large quantities?

Is there a sawmill nearby which could provide you with some wettish slabs of spruce or whatevers cheap straight from the saw with no horrible roundovers?
Might be found if looking for fence posts and wood products or the like.

Gumtree might be worth looking for some timber also.
Good luck

Tom

 

[Jameshow]

Hi all,

I'm going to build a workbench based on Richard Maguire's English Workbench (Nicholson). I'm based in Stafford and looking for the best option for timber. My first consideration was SYP. I built a Nicholson many years out of that but can't find anything remotely affordable in the sizes I want now. Some people recommend Unsorted Redwood, which I can't seem to find anywhere either. So, I'm thinking of going down the construction timber route.

Would C24 "Black Forest" Easy Edge be a decent option? I have a local timber merchant who has what I want with regards to dimensions, but would this be really horrible stuff to work with? Product here.

I wouldn't!
The density of the pine will be just a little heavier than balsa....

The radius will be a pain to work with too.

You want dense pine with tight growth rings.

I use henshaw timber in Baildon who if they are delivering your way might drop some off.

Pm if you want more info.

 

[CMax]

I'd reckon Richards bench might be more than a tad fancier than what might be in some old books.
Without a workbench?, laminating those easy edged timbers will be a challenge in regards to effort required, without some mechanical tooling necessary.

Thanks for the information, Tom. Yeah, I won't be working with a workbench to build this bench... just some trestles, which is why I'm looking for 250-300mm planks; there won't be any edge joints required.

I'm planning on having gaps between the planks anyway.

The only joint that'll require flattening is the front plank against the front apron, and I'm happy to do that with hand planes. The round-over won't be a problem for the plank tops either, given the gaps, but I suppose I don't necessarily want it to be a complete pig to work with, especially as this is a hand-tool-only project. I've sent some emails to local sawmills and timber merchants without much response (apart from the guys I linked to).

I wouldn't!
The density of the pine will be just a little heavier than balsa....

I'm showing my ignorance. I thought C24 meant that it was dense and strong. I'll get in touch with Henshaws and see what they've got. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Jameshow]

C16 + 24 just means that it's been graded either manually or automatically so as to have few enough knots resist a given load.
I've seen some pretty awful c24!!

I can ask at henshaws although I doubt they will have 250mm.... You could glue up 2 X 150mm

 

[Ttrees]

No point in me trying to point you to point you to a more suitable product,
as I am clueless in that regards.
I didn't think you could readily get those widths for construction purposes,
i.e easy edge roundovers on both edges.

I can tell you that you won't want a roundover anywhere regarding any joints, i.e a big groove down the top which would be a pain,
not to mention the fact that those edges are important in regards to matching those timbers, as matching with roundovers isn't near as easy.
Then there's joinery, i.e you put a framing square on that profiled timber, rather than a carpenters square.
Try and find something else unless its really cheap.
If you can't get those widths, and you don't have a rigid bench to plane on, that won't be fun dealing with the stock for various reasons due to the amount of removal.
At least with something fairly wide, edge planing will be easier due to the rigidity of the boards, should it be and stay a stable and straight board, others can tell you that, as I have no experience in that regards.

Sorry I can't be of more help
Tom

 

[Fitzroy]

Paul Sellers has a video series about building a bench from construction timber with only hand tools. It’s not a Richard Maguire design but it does cover the pitfalls of working with such timber and the use of hand tools and no bench to build a bench.

If I recall he though construction timber was ok if you could hand pick the boards to get the best ones

Fitz.

 

[CMax]

Paul Sellers has a video series about building a bench from construction timber with only hand tools. It’s not a Richard Maguire design but it does cover the pitfalls of working with such timber and the use of hand tools and no bench to build a bench.

If I recall he though construction timber was ok if you could hand pick the boards to get the best ones

Fitz.

Yes, I've watched his series a view times and he does a good job of wrangling his 2x4s. It's definitely an option, though one that's low on my list of preferences. Still, if it comes to it, it's good to know it can work. Thanks

My last bench was a Nicholson using wide 12" SYP boards that didn't cost the earth. I loved it ... for about the two days I got to use it before I split with my ex, sold the house, and had to get rid of it... but that's a whole other story. As SYP seems off the list of options, it looks like construction grade will have to do.

An old in-progress shot of my previous SYP Nicholson:

... You could glue up 2 X 150mm

I may have to do that, but even then, I'm not going to find much at 75mm thick. I've found a few places that have PSE redwood boards, but they max out at 44mm, which is going to be too thin. I had a look at Henshaws, but they charge £1 per mile for delivery... that's going to be prohibitive, unfortunately.

 

[Scruples]

My amateur hobby bench was built from pine. The legs are 100mm x 100 and the top surround 25mm x 150mm. It has a lower level for small power tools ana a hardwood top jointed from used hardwood worktops and flattened. When the top needs replacing I will use ply. It will last my lifetime and more... The bench is nearly 10 years old and still looks and feels new. I suppose it's horses for courses, right?

 

[Adam W.]

C16 + 24 just means that it's been graded either manually or automatically so as to have few enough knots resist a given load.
I've seen some pretty awful c24!!

I can ask at henshaws although I doubt they will have 250mm.... You could glue up 2 X 150mm

I've seen very good, dense C24 with minimal sap and tight rings, so good infact that I used it for carving capitals and sticking mouldings.

This is made partly from C24 from the equivalent of B&Q, it wasn't rubbish timber.

 

[Jameshow]

I've seen very good, dense C24 with minimal sap and tight rings, so good infact that I used it for carving capitals and sticking mouldings.

This is made partly from C24 from the equivalent of B&Q, it wasn't rubbish timber.

View attachment 140136

Tbh I was thinking more of c16...

If the op has no joy by Friday I could bring some down?

Think it's £2/m for 2x 150mm

But appreciate he might want thicker.

 

[hlvd]

I've watched both of his workbench video series numerous times But I've discounted both as I neither want to go with the plywood option or the laminated top. I've done that before with a beech top and just really don't want to do it again. But then, if I can't find anything decent for wide planks, I may have to bite the bullet and join some. But the other reason I've discounted the Sellers bench is that I don't want either the knockdown feature or the tool-well.

My last bench was a Nicholson. I loved it ... for about the two days I got to use it before I split with my ex, sold the house, and had to get rid of it... but that's a whole other story. I'm settled on the kind of bench I want to build, it's just finding the suitable wood that's proving tricky.

An in-progress shot of my old SYP Nicholson:

View attachment 140124

I may have to do that, but even then, I'm not going to find much at 75mm thick. I've found a few places that have PSE redwood boards, but they max out at 44mm, which is going to be too thin. I had a look at Henshaws, but they charge £1 per mile for delivery... that's going to be prohibitive, unfortunately.

That apron will only get in the way when clamping as there’s no overhang.

 

[CMax]

I suppose it's horses for courses, right?

Absolutely mate. If we only had one option, life would be boring

I've seen very good, dense C24 with minimal sap and tight rings, so good infact that I used it for carving capitals and sticking mouldings.

This is made partly from C24 from the equivalent of B&Q, it wasn't rubbish timber.

View attachment 140136

Wow, that's a lovely piece! Good to know that C24 is an option, though I suppose it'd be better if I got to the yard (assuming they allow that) to pick out the best bits.

That apron will only get in the way when clamping as there’s no overhang.

That's really not a problem for me. Holdfasts will do all the clamping I need. And it'll be a split top so I can get clamps down there if required, though that'll rarely be needed. Another simple option is to notch between the top and apron—see my earlier photo in the thread of my first Nicholson to see how I did that, though I doubt I'll do that this time; there are plenty of holding mechanisms with the apron. It's one of the main reasons why I'm choosing to build this kind of bench.

 

[CMax]

Tbh I was thinking more of c16...

If the op has no joy by Friday I could bring some down?

Think it's £2/m for 2x 150mm

But appreciate he might want thicker.

That's a very kind offer, James. Thank you. I've emailed a few other suppliers for the thicker stuff, but if I don't hear from them, I'll consider your option. Although ideally, I do want thicker, if it's simply not viable then I'll have to compromise. Many Nicholson's are built with 36-50mm and do okay, so it's not the worst thing in the world.

That price you mention, is that per meter for rough sawn redwood?

 

[Jameshow]

Yes let me check early next week

I could take some pics too.

 

[CMax]

Yes let me check early next week

I could take some pics too.

Thanks mate. Much appreciated.

 

[hlvd]

Absolutely mate. If we only had one option, life would be boring


Wow, that's a lovely piece! Good to know that C24 is an option, though I suppose it'd be better if I got to the yard (assuming they allow that) to pick out the best bits.


That's really not a problem for me. Holdfasts will do all the clamping I need. And it'll be a split top so I can get clamps down there if required, though that'll rarely be needed. Another simple option is to notch between the top and apron—see my earlier photo in the thread of my first Nicholson to see how I did that, though I doubt I'll do that this time; there are plenty of holding mechanisms with the apron. It's one of the main reasons why I'm choosing to build this kind of bench.

Build the frame strong enough to withstand racking and the top thick enough to withstand flexing and the apron becomes unnecessary.

I’d have a clamp/cramp over the edge over a bench holdfast every time as you can put them anywhere rather than fixed positions.

 

[CMax]

Build the frame strong enough to withstand racking and the top thick enough to withstand flexing and the apron becomes unnecessary.

I’d have a clamp/cramp over the edge over a bench holdfast every time as you can put them anywhere rather than fixed positions.

For me personally, it's no hardship to have a few dog holes along the top/apron wherever I might need them. Your design suggestion is certainly a valid one and makes sense for some people, but I prefer the Nicholson design.

 

[northstar]

C16 + 24 just means that it's been graded either manually or automatically so as to have few enough knots resist a given load.
I've seen some pretty awful c24!!

I can ask at henshaws although I doubt they will have 250mm.... You could glue up 2 X 150mm

I agree, it's often the case that you can get hold of non graded timber that is a lot better than C16/24 and is cheaper too. the process the lumber mills seem to operate is a bit like automated bottom up which simply counts the knots per metre and the resistance to deflection, which can be be surprisingly poor.
Unsorted Russian was usually the best bet but most so called timber yards only seem to have it in machined boards as skirting etc but you might try looking for some plain door casing material, usually available in ex 6" x 1 1/2 "