Looking at Turning full time and other general ideas

[mark sanger]

Hi all

This thread has been opened as initially the topic of working as a full time turner started being brought up in RogerB's thread that he started to show his hollow forms and I thought it best perhaps to start a dedicated thread to carry on the conversation.

 

[mark sanger]

Chas

I have to agree to a certain extent and do understand why people want to keep their business to themselves and I too would want to protect my business as after all without it I can not put food on the table., etc.

But giving a few ideas of how to look at the business side I do not feel gives away anything that will harm.

I obviously would not post a list of local people that need me to do work for them and add to it how much I charge.

But we have to be mindful that people will take ideas and try to grab work from others. This is also a part of business that people need to be aware of.

But being involved in artistic work means that yes I am in competition as it were with other turners but less so than a purely commercial business as we all have our own style.

It may be that a person likes another's work over mine and therefore buy theirs as it appeals to their taste. Or it may fit in better within the interior they are choosing it for.

Trust me if someone copied my work tried selling it as theirs I would not be so charitable. But again this is something that is hard to combat and if trying to run a business is also something to be mindful of.

But at the end of the day we all have to get on and and I believe there is enough room for many of us as long as we respect each other. This is the way I work.

IE If I was looking for antique restorers for a possible place to get work from. I became aware that a turner who lives near to me already does work for them. So I politely declined to do any work for them. It wasn't that his work was not any good I just found out that he was doing it and I do not do business that way.

Some may think " this guy is crackers" and I know of people that would undercut and take the work.

I just decide not to work or live in that way. And I know that I will loose work to others but I just accept it.

I have enough ideas rattling around to keep me busy for the rest of my days.

Again though if I found one of my wall hangings which I designed being mass produced and sold in high street shops I would adopt a different approach. But I will cross that bridge if it happens and I do not loose too much sleep over it.

M





I concur with Chas. I am one of those that would love to turn for a living but have a long way to go before I am that good. Having a few pieces in a couple of galleries and shops is a real ego boost and hopefully covers the cost of my addiction but for me the hard part is the selling. Every time a gallery or shop has a look at my work I am thinking 'hope they don't notice that slight sanding mark, they won't like the design and so on. Any tips you havefor us who sell the odd bit is qwelcome from any of you who have dived in and done it

Pete
_________________
Mistakes are serendipity in disguise







Pete


What you have said is valid. It is important to me to always refine, refine, refine what we do with regards to our technique.

That way what we then decide to make am item, be it a bowl, hollow form, spindle or what ever will be made with a much more consistent quality.

I do not cope with pressure well so if I take a piece to a gallery it is the best piece it can be. Then if they do not like it then I know it is down to taste/style as opposed to quality.

However when I started turning there were issues that I had with my work but they were always the best I could do at that particular time.

Also this I took on board from when I was studying another discipline.

The foundation techniques are the most important techniques that we can ever try to master.

Once there are mastered we must return to them time and time again to refine. Never stop practising the basics. With turning this will be gouge control, to give the most efficient and clean cut that we can achieve time and time again.

returning to the basics is known in some disciplines as keeping
" beginners mind"

If we always practice as if were are beginners then we can allow our mind to absorb what we are doing without forcing our own views upon it.

Am example is. Some days when I go into the workshop before I start any work I will place a piece of 2 x 2 pine between centres say 12 inches long. Rough it. Plane it with a skew. Then I will cut 1/4-1/2 beads with a skew, then rough and plane, then the same with a spindle gouge then do it again with a 1/4 inch parting tool.

practice in this way every day for half an hour and you will soon notch up several thousand beads.

In this way this is why turning green wood and roughing for bowls is a great way to learn.

Roughing is not a way of just ripping out the material, it is a way to practice good gouge technique time and time again, refining the cut, getting more efficient.

Try it there is no reason after a few months you should not be able to rough an 8 inch x 2 inch bowl down to 15% oversize within five minutes.

Do not get me wrong here. ( speed is not the target) safety and efficiency is the target coupled and in unison with gouge/tool control.


One final note I was told once by a teacher that if you practice something 300 time then the mind will always have this ingrained as second nature. But if you induce a bad habit it will take the mind 3000 times of doing it correctly to remove this ingrained fault.

Taking time to get good tool technique right in the first place will help ultimately to build a business upon a good foundation.

(yes there are things that I have to practice and do every day)

Take care all

Mark

 

[mark sanger]

please feel free to contribute. Even if you feel that what I have said may not be correct.

I am in no way the all seeing all knowing guru of turning. But it is an interesting subject for those who may think of turning as a full time occupation.

M

 

[Bodrighy]

As one of those people who is more likely to dive in the deep end and learn the hard way I have to agree from experience with what you are saying Mark. I avoided the skew like the plague for ages after a few dig-ins. Now, after being shown how to use the evil thing I find I have it more or less permanently to hand. Roughing I always try and get aaaaaa smooth finish and actually take pride in getting as good a finish with as with a spindle gouge. I have found that joining a club after 2 years in isolation (apart from this forum) I havelearnt more from the training classes than I would have dreamt of, expecially in how not to do things. Having seen first hand the work of some of the experts at places like the London Festival of wood I realised that my work is actually better than I thought in some ways and far short of 'good' in others. It's all very well just having fun but I am finding that it is becoming more serious and as you said I need to continually hone any skills I may have not just assume they are there because I managed it once.

Pete

 

[mark sanger]

Hi Pete

You are right.

but there should always be a balance for me from getting serious and enjoying what we do.

You should see me make a chair leg :shock: :shock: :shock:

It will look fine but you had better put your feet up and bring a paper as I may be a while :lol: :lol:


I just wouldn't enjoy doing it, and that is important.

M

 

[Scrums]

It's starting to get an interesting thread, must admit I missed the beginning and had to go back and read a few posts.

I too turn full-time and though I hesitate to call myself a 'professional turner' I suppose I am. Fortunately I'm older, much older than Mark I guess, don't have a mortgage and though not well off, not even comfortably off - don't need to generate too much income, which is fortunate.

I'm diametrically opposite though to what Mark does, I hardly ever make bowls or decorative items, they just don't sell very well. I concentrate on batch production of items for sale on the internet through various sites and Craft Fairs that I do. I've also started doing repetetive work for other craftspeople, ie: stool legs - an order for ten sets just in, not big money each, but suprising just how fast you can get when working against the clock. As for enjoyment - Yes it's there.....just changing the technique and doing something faster and perhaps modifying the 'make' so there's just one operation less......perhaps sad, but satisfying and fulfilling.

Strangely enough, I'm breaking even and just starting to show a profit and work is steadily drifting in. Sales to Ireland, Germany, Australia and Italy this week + Uk of course.

Chris.