long bench clamps....

[clogs]

there was a discusion a while ago about long clamps.....
found this today....
just a bit of basic metal work and some very stong clamps for the time taken.....

 

[johna.clements]

​

I bought some Tamlex 41x21x2.5 slotted channel strut (similar to Unistrut) plus some brackets from CEF. I can only use folding wedges to clamp but have a pair of clamps that camp to about 1350 for £25.03 each. And no metal work involved apart from cutting the strut in half and filing off the sharp edge. If I had wanted longer clamps I would have had to buy two channels which would have pushed the price up to £40.25 each and could clamp to about 2850.

 

[clogs]

johna.clements...
sounds good, photo's please......ta.....

 

[johna.clements]

Misplaced the cable to connect camera to computer, may have to get another one.

here is the products on Tamlex website.

half a chanel for 1500 long (approx 1350 effective) 41x21x2.5 slotted channel strut part 41mm x 21mm Slotted Channel (3m Length) - Tamlex

2 number per clamp 4 Hole 100mm x 80mm Right Angle Bracket part TB144 4 Hole 100mm x 80mm Angle Bracket - Tamlex

4 number per clamp M8 Channel Nut Long Spring part TN8LS (not sure if the shorter spring version would have worked which was also 1 or 2p cheaper) M8 Channel Nut - Long Spring - Tamlex

Plus 4 M8 set screws and penny washers per clamp which I did not purchase at CEF as they were slightly cheaper elsewhere (Fusion Fixings) and I had to go there to get something else.

They also do M6, M10 and M12 spring nuts which would be slightly stronger or weaker. I choose M8 because it is the thread in Benchdogs dogs and wanted to have everything interchange able so only have one size bolt to find I have not thought of a reason to but I know that I could fix bench dogs to the channel, may come in useful for some jig.

I choose slotted rather than plain channel as it gives me more options. I can bolt the channel too my mft.

I have seen people using timber for clamps but that takes up a lot more room to store. The channel obviously stores inside each other so takes up 1500x50x25 approx.

 

[Ttrees]

Can you buy acme hardware like that in the UK?
So much practical stuff at walmart/lowes/homedepot that I've never seen this side of the drink.


It's nearly like they don't want you to make/invent something!

 

[johna.clements]

Can you buy acme hardware like that in the UK?
So much practical stuff at walmart/lowes/homedepot that I've never seen this side of the drink.


It's nearly like they don't want you to make/invent something! View attachment 142299

You can buy the stuff in the op in the UK. May have difficulty buying from a real place rather than online.

 

[Ttrees]

You can buy the stuff in the op in the UK. May have difficulty buying from a real place rather than online.

I was referring to the video rather than the ducting hardware fittings you posted,
Got all that stuff at me folks, and would be impressed that you could make clamps out of that!

All the best
Tom

 

[johna.clements]

I was referring to the video rather than the ducting hardware fittings you posted,
Got all that stuff at me folks, and would be impressed that you could make clamps out of that!

All the best
Tom

I was referring to the video in the op! as well.

I would not be impressed it is not a very original idea.

It is a bit like this idea but does not clamp in the y axis.

I do not have a drill press so buying a channel cuts out that work. If I bought some coach bolts and another channel I would have a pair of clamps like the above video.

There are fancy ways of doing that but more expensive. I only need to use the clamp once (at the moment!) so went for a cheap solution which if it does not work well I can then use for shelves.

Fancy strut clamp, I have seen videos of something similar made of wood..

 

[Ttrees]

I'd imagine it would be hard to beat these for the cost, @£9/10 euros each.
Not sure if they actually came in or not, but likely to work out for similar money.


ps @johna.clements , never saw that heavier gauge of low profile u-channel before, I was doubting the much flimsier stuff, the heavy stuff which I have guessing 50x50 is fairly hefty.

 

[johna.clements]

@Ttrees You have to add in the cost of the threaded rod which seems to be around £24 delivered for 1600 long.
That gives a price of £34 for my size but it does have a threaded clamp as opposed to folding wedges for my £25 clamps.

A 1600 and 1400 pipe plus coupler costs about £47 plus the £9/10 for the clamp fitting so about £57 as opposed to £40 a 3m channel strut clamp that uses folding wedges.

The pipe clamps are obviously a better product. But you cant turn them into shelves after you have used them for that one large glue up.

 

[Ttrees]

@Ttrees You have to add in the cost of the threaded rod which seems to be around £24 delivered for 1600 long.
That gives a price of £34 for my size but it does have a threaded clamp as opposed to folding wedges for my £25 clamps.

A 1600 and 1400 pipe plus coupler costs about £47 plus the £9/10 for the clamp fitting so about £57 as opposed to £40 a 3m channel strut clamp that uses folding wedges.

The pipe clamps are obviously a better product. But you cant turn them into shelves after you have used them for that one large glue up.

Oops I thought the pipe was included.
Not a massive bargain so, seems like some f clamps would be better deal, should one have space to store a jig for an application where they couldn't be used as is.

Tom

 

[D_W]

Figuring out how to make something that doesn't need tons of clamps spanning a long length is also nice.

I think one of the benefits of hide glue originally (I can't use it - shop is too cold) is that on large glue up items, you could get a good tack on a large glue up very quickly. Accurate work and a progressive glue-up is another good strategy.

I thought I had a lot of clamps until I started building the longer base cabinets for my kitchen and my longest are 60, and only a pair. Two of the cabinets were longer than 60 and I already don't remember what I did - probably pinned part that would be out of sight.

"how to make clamps" is one of the youtube videos of the type "something for nothing, and good for a redo annually", though.

lastly, when clamps like those (U channel) start to venture into being really heavy, realistically, they become a detriment to use unless they're absolutely needed.

 

[johna.clements]

Figuring out how to make something that doesn't need tons of clamps spanning a long length is also nice.

I think one of the benefits of hide glue originally (I can't use it - shop is too cold) is that on large glue up items, you could get a good tack on a large glue up very quickly. Accurate work and a progressive glue-up is another good strategy.

I thought I had a lot of clamps until I started building the longer base cabinets for my kitchen and my longest are 60, and only a pair. Two of the cabinets were longer than 60 and I already don't remember what I did - probably pinned part that would be out of sight.

"how to make clamps" is one of the youtube videos of the type "something for nothing, and good for a redo annually", though.

lastly, when clamps like those (U channel) start to venture into being really heavy, realistically, they become a detriment to use unless they're absolutely needed.

The U channel clamps weigh 2.5kg plus the brackets for 1500 long. Once you go over 1000 long the prices get a bit steep which is why I decided to improvise for something I currently only have one use for. I have a pair of 1000 long parallel clamps and they weigh 1.9kg, so they are about the same per unit of length (but are not as good)

 

[D_W]

The U channel clamps weigh 2.5kg plus the brackets for 1500 long. Once you go over 1000 long the prices get a bit steep which is why I decided to improvise for something I currently only have one use for. I have a pair of 1000 long parallel clamps and they weigh 1.9kg, so they are about the same per unit of length (but are not as good)

if I'm reading the current bessey sheet, that's lighter than the k body "revo", which I have none of. Not sure what the original kbody weights were, but probably not less than that, either.

Weight comes to mind because at the time I started, the k body (german) bessey clamps were being sold. Jet made a big charge to sell lower quality imported clamps here but position them as being better. They're heavier. That's about all I can say of them and I wish I had only bessey types any time I've had to get more than a few of them on a project. Especially if you're trying to adjust one of the big ones from one end.

 

[D_W]

Can you buy acme hardware like that in the UK?
So much practical stuff at walmart/lowes/homedepot that I've never seen this side of the drink.


It's nearly like they don't want you to make/invent something! View attachment 142299

I'm not sure how much of that is physically at walmart/lowes/HD. They definitely have low quality flat stock and angle steel for sale - sometimes the mild steel bar leaves you scratching your head trying to guess what it is as it seems to be alloyed with something instead of being simple A36 or other mild steel.

At any rate, a lot of what's on walmart and home depot's sites is not in the local store, but can be delivered there.

I've always had to mailorder anything "good", like bigger acme rod or good quality flat stock.

 

[johna.clements]

if I'm reading the current bessey sheet, that's lighter than the k body "revo", which I have none of. Not sure what the original kbody weights were, but probably not less than that, either.

Weight comes to mind because at the time I started, the k body (german) bessey clamps were being sold. Jet made a big charge to sell lower quality imported clamps here but position them as being better. They're heavier. That's about all I can say of them and I wish I had only bessey types any time I've had to get more than a few of them on a project. Especially if you're trying to adjust one of the big ones from one end.

Looking at this website https://www.bessey.de/en-GB/BESSEY-...amps-and-area-pressure-clamps/K-Body-REVO-KRE

They weigh 3.45kg for two 1000m long or 1.725 each if I am reading it correctly. (which would make sence my cheap Chinese 1000 long clamps being 1.9kg)

The 1500 long Bessey comes in at 2.14 kg (assuming that the weight on the website is for two) as opposed to my channel at 2.5kg plus about 0.7kg for the brackets etc so total around about 3.2kg or 50% heavier. The Bessey clamps would be far easier to use than channel and wedges but cost £92.34 for two (on sale at Bessey UK today normally £189.06) or £46.17 each as opposed to £25.03.

 

[D_W]

Looking at this website K Body REVO KRE

They weigh 3.45kg for two 1000m long or 1.725 each if I am reading it correctly. (which would make sence my cheap Chinese 1000 long clamps being 1.9kg)

The 1500 long Bessey comes in at 2.14 kg (assuming that the weight on the website is for two) as opposed to my channel at 2.5kg plus about 0.7kg for the brackets etc so total around about 3.2kg or 50% heavier. The Bessey clamps would be far easier to use than channel and wedges but cost £92.34 for two (on sale at Bessey UK today normally £189.06) or £46.17 each as opposed to £25.03.

they're definitely expensive. They're more expensive now than the simpler clamps were when they were still made in germany. I haven't bought one in probably near 15 years, so it's hard to compare fairly now, but I recall them being about $30 per clamp or so on average.

There also wasn't so much price controlling of brands online back then, so that could've been just what I found on sale....they were slightly smaller, too.

This is all way off of my radar now, but I do remember a big ruckus because fine woodworking put out an article stating something like clamping pressure needing to be 150 pounds per square inch to get a good glue up. At the time, bessey rated their clamps at 1000 pounds or something and the faithful were white knuckling their way up and down boards trying to squeeze the quarks out.

Nobody thought about maybe just gluing a few boards without going so far and seeing if they would fail.

In 16 or 17 years, I've never had a glue joint fail, but was warned fairly early on by someone in a shop that the one place he did see regular glue failure was when a new employee would try to clamp joints, and a few minutes after most of the glue was half dry, try to adjust them with a mallet just "getting it perfect" one last time.

 

[johna.clements]

@D W I watched this video a few days ago. Lower clamping pressure gives stronger joints.

 

[D_W]

@D W I watched this video a few days ago. Lower clamping pressure gives stronger joints.

It's probably a complicated thing, but I think testing anything is a great idea. In my opinion, anyone willing to make woodworking a hobby that they want to be good at should do purposeful testing with about 10% of their time, comparing one thing to another to find out which is better.

The other 90% suddenly does the work of 150% or 200% without experimenting.

In general, it's nice to be able to do accurate enough work when it counts - and quickly - to be about to put all joints together end to end without much hand pressure...

.......and when it doesn't count - laminating a bench top for example - it's all glue surface, just lay on the glue and clamp it together. off to watch the video you posted.

 

[D_W]

Thank goodness, a rational video about clamping. I can attest to the accuracy comment. Make the joints so they close easily and then don't worry too much.

the other thing that stands out to me is a retired chemist talking about wetting in regard to a surface - the glue bonds to itself well, but we have to make sure that it's well established on the surface where it will be sticking to and not starved or prevented from flowing out onto and into (if necessary) the surface.

Smart move by this guy talking to franklin instead of listening to random sources or just re-publishing whatever other people say. The chemist mentioned above had done the same.

Lastly, I've generally not cleaned or sanded joints, but they get glued right after planing. when I started, there was constant talk about how using a typical planing angle makes the surface of wood refuse to take finish or glue, which I have never actually seen in person. The insistence of that was ardent. So I sanded joints for a year or two when I first started. Since then, with hide glue and titebond, I've never sanded a joint and never had one fail.

I wouldn't be surprised if a planed joint is a little stronger than a sanded joint just because the surface is more uniform and more easily wetted by the glue when it's applied. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's less strong in a way that doesn't matter.

(for anyone wondering about the term wetting, it doesn't mean making a surface wet like with water, it means the action of a glue)