Lidl chisels

[Paddy Roxburgh]

When did you buy your Narex? The Czech Republic and Slovakia split in 1993 and the Czech Reublic have bee in the EU since 2004 and use the Euro as their currency. Are your chisels communist era? If so I'm interested to know what they're like
Paddy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have some Czechoslovakian Narex I bought in a market for £5. I threw the handles away because they were awful and the machining is very basic, but I've not got around to trying them yet. Apparently the steel was extremely good because being communist all their technology was pretty much available to all industries, so tool manufacturers used data from weapons manufacturers and so on. So I've read, anyway.

 

[artie]

I know that this thread started off about Lidl/Aldi chisels but it has wandered somewhat, so if I may comment on the point made earlier about the ethics of sourcing goods from third world countries.

We look with pity at people in "poor" countries, who possibly work long hours for a meagre wage and live without the luxury of a 56 inch plasma/LCD/LED TV.

But have you ever considered that, the person sleeping on the streets of Calcutta who owns nothing or very little, is much richer that the average UK household.

According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.

I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.

 

[lurker]

Yep they are that old
To some of us 1993 is yesterday!

I bought them for rough jobs but then realised they were quite good.
Unlike Phil mine still have the original handles so I don't worry about using a hammer on them

 

[lurker]

I know that this thread started off about Lidl/Aldi chisels but it has wandered somewhat, so if I may comment on the point made earlier about the ethics of sourcing goods from third world countries.

We look with pity at people in "poor" countries, who possibly work long hours for a meagre wage and live without the luxury of a 56 inch plasma/LCD/LED TV.

But have you ever considered that, the person sleeping on the streets of Calcutta who owns nothing or very little, is much richer that the average UK household.

According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.

I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.

Misuse of statistics!
The debt is because so many have a mortgage and they are averaged around us all.
I have no debts.

 

[Rhossydd]

According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.
I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.

It's yet another pointless statistic.
One needs to consider assets and the ability to earn, before one starts to talk about how 'well off' people are.

 

[DiscoStu]

I think we'll of could be considered a state of mind rather than a measure of financial wealth? In the UK we are only seen as successful if we have the latest car / phone / TV etc. However surely the point of life is to enjoy ourselves? If having a big TV makes you happy then fine. However for other people they might be very happy living in the wilderness with very little worries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MatthewRedStars]

According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.
I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.

It's yet another pointless statistic.
One needs to consider assets and the ability to earn, before one starts to talk about how 'well off' people are.

Quite.

And the level of misunderstanding about how money works is bewildering.

Other than cash (notes and coins) there is no money that exists that isn't debt. Cash makes up about 3% of money.

97% of money is bank created debt, essentially, there is no money that isn't debt. The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER (as a country, obviously doesn't work for the individual).

So everything the government says about reducing debt and the 'country's credit card being full' is nonsense. The only way to create money is by creating debt, and hoping inflation keeps the problem undercontrol (but not so high as to stop people spending).

It's all a trick. There are way better explanations online.

TLDR: paying back debt makes us poorer, taking out debt makes us richer.

PS: the fact that what is good for the country is bad for the individual creates a 'tragedy of the commons' type peril.

 

[Penny]

Has anyone considered that the people being exploited are us, the buyers of cheap tools? We moan about the high cost of UK made tools, and we moan about the low cost of Far Eastern made tools.

Would I rather spend £20.00 and help a UK company make even more massive profits, or £2.99 and allow some kid in the Far East to earn just enough to buy enough food to live on?

If we didn't buy the cheaper Far Eastern tools, would those kids now be starving? Yes, they may be being exploited by our standards, but ask them if they would rather work and eat, or not work and starve.


Besides, I can't afford the major expense of UK made tools.

 

[Droogs]

As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.

 

[JohnPW]

As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.

I've got a Lidl chisel in front of me, on the handle is "Powerfix Profil+" and "DIN 5139", On the blade is "Abraham Diederichs GmbH & Co.oHG", then their address in Wuppertal in Germany, then various numbers inc manufacturing date I think. Country of manufacture is not on the chisel nor the packaging.

Powerfix is Lidl's own brand of tools, Aldi's is Workzone. I''ve always assumed that Lidl gets the chisels from Abraham Diederichs which is a German company but the chisels are made in the far east, because if they were made in Germany, they would say so.

But now I'm not so sure. First, the handles are European ash, as the packaging says.
Second, they look very similar to these German made Rutlands chisels:
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... hg+1310306
Third, it could just a generl policy not to state country of manufacture when there is no legal requirement, even if they are made in Germany.

 

[artie]

The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER

I'd be very interested, if you could explain how that works.?

 

[MatthewRedStars]

The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER

I'd be very interested, if you could explain how that works.?

Because money IS debt, it's created by the banking system. Money = debt. So conversely, No debt = no money.

People think that banks take in money from deposits and lend it out as loans. They don't. They haven't for hundreds of years.

What makes a bank a bank is it's ability to create money out of thin air. My mortgage isn't funded by my neighbour's deposits, it was created out of thin air and exists only on the banks balance sheet as an asset (hence how mortgages are bought and sold... sub prime... crash... recession etc).

So ALL money (except physical cash) is debt and exists only inside bank computers. Think about your wages, or any money you have, it will eventually come back to bank created debt (yeah, I know you could own a literal gold mine but i'm talking generally).

Every penny (except cash) in the economy is borne from debt.

The banks then gain interest on money they have simply invented from thin air.

If we all paid back our debts, the money supply would cease to exist.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry Ford

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920s

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson

It's a travesty that this stuff isn't taught in schools. There are various websites, youtube videos that explain it better. It's not a conspiracy theory. But it is hard to believe that HSBC / Lloyds etc can profit from invented money. But that's how it's worked for a very long time.

 

[JohnPW]

This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!

 

[Monkey Mark]

As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.

I've got a Lidl chisel in front of me, on the handle is "Powerfix Profil+" and "DIN 5139", On the blade is "Abraham Diederichs GmbH & Co.oHG", then their address in Wuppertal in Germany, then various numbers inc manufacturing date I think. Country of manufacture is not on the chisel nor the packaging.

Powerfix is Lidl's own brand of tools, Aldi's is Workzone. I''ve always assumed that Lidl gets the chisels from Abraham Diederichs which is a German company but the chisels are made in the far east, because if they were made in Germany, they would say so.

But now I'm not so sure. First, the handles are European ash, as the packaging says.
Second, they look very similar to these German made Rutlands chisels:
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... hg+1310306
Third, it could just a generl policy not to state country of manufacture when there is no legal requirement, even if they are made in Germany.

It's a shame Lidl chisels aren't available in a larger set.

As was mentioned earlier in thus topic, not all of us are able to afford the best equipment, myself being one of them. As it's only a hobby I have to keep costs down. I'll certainly be buying a set when they next come in.


Seems as we are talking about cheap vs quality chisels, has anyone come across VonHaus sets? From some of the other items they make they appear to possibly be rebrand silverline, but they get good reviews. VonHaus 10pc Professional Wood Carving Chisel Set with Honing Guide, Sharpening Stone & Storage Case https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015Y15U2M/ ... nwb7TFW6MT

 

[Droogs]

I stand corrected John . Must have got the names mixed up.

 

[artie]

This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!

I started the thread, and it has served it's purpose.

I don't know if that gives me any rights to content, but I am happy to let it be derailed to the discussion of money, or go to a new one.

OR abandon the subject if it is Taboo

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nah ... the only taboo subjects are the interesting ones ...

 

[Andy Kev.]

This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!

I started the thread, and it has served it's purpose.

I don't know if that gives me any rights to content, but I am happy to let it be derailed to the discussion of money, or go to a new one.

OR abandon the subject if it is Taboo

Here's another one for you then: the term "leverage" which you sometimes hear bandied about when the conversation turns to banking.

Most people think that if they stick 100 quid in the bank, the bank can lend it to, say a cabinet maker who wants to buy some new chisels. He borrows the Money, buys the chisels and pays back the 100 + interest, so the bank is now sitting on, say, 110 quid. They give 2.50 of that to the depositor as his interest and pocket the other 7.50.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that most people would be happy with that but that ain't what happens. The bank sees that Muggins has deposited 100 quid. It then lends 100 to a cabinet maker, 100 to a plumber, 100 to the kind of ***** who thinks it's OK to take out a loan to go on holiday etc. So the money has been "levered" 3x all because it's got 100 real quid as a starting point. The difference now is that the depositor still gets his 2.50 interest the bank gets 3 x 7.50 Profit, which it then ships to a tax haven to avoid paying tax. This is all fine if all is going well and the three who borrowed the money can pay it back. However, if the economy has a serious downturn so that the cabinet maker and plumber have no new orders and the holidaying ***** suddenly becomes redundant, then the bank is sitting on loads of debt. The bank should go bust but because that could have terrible knock on effects for the economy it's time for the good old taxpayer to cough up.

Banking could be a clean, straightforward business which does the country some good. As it is, it is pretty disgusting and I don't see how someone who wants to call himself a man can get involved in it.

Meanwhile, a top tip: save and save and then buy one tip top chisel a month from a British manufacturer in the sizes that you actually need and use. That way you'll end up with a cracking set of chisels and a clean conscience.


PS If you think that that the above is bad news, then do a bit of digging and find out how many times money gets "leveraged" in the real economy.

 

[artie]

Andy Kev.

Do a search for fractional reserve banking and you will find that the 100 sovs deposited can be lent out many more than three times. Also there is no need for any money to be deposited for them to lend.

I watched a series of videos a while back called the history of money, or something like that.

I wouldn't try to explain cause I am sure I would mess up some detail and get pounced on, but if you have some spare time it's well worth a look.

The biggest thing that got me was the fact that the government borrows money at interest from "International" bankers, when it could print the same amount interest free. One of the biggest cons of all time.