Learning to spray paint

[beech1948]

I would like to be able to spray paint/varnish a number of items but lack experience. I live in Berkshire ( Crowthorne) and wondered if anyone would volunteer to teach me for a day or 1/2 day.

I know its cheeky to ask but where is one to go to learn for a hobbyist. Beer tokens available to cover materials.

 

[ED65]

What scale of items would you like to learn to spray?

Larger items and trying to effectively spray internal surfaces is going to be challenging all right but if it's mostly smaller things I do think your best teacher would be experience, obviously with some guidance from the Internet to start you off if needed. Practising at home you'll learn to use your kit with your finishes, learning firsthand how they need to be thinned to spray properly. With most things you can over-thin and it's not a huge deal, it's under-thinning that'll bite you. So if in doubt dilute a tad more (roughly the consistency of milk is a good starting point).

You'll soon pick up spraying distance and so forth because you can immediately see what works and what doesn't on the surface of your test pieces. Too far and the surface is dry, dusty looking or speckly, too close you get puddling and runs. Remember the distances that gave you those two results and the ideal spraying distance, for that finish thinned that amount at a given pressure, is in between those two distances.

Varnish is a good thing to begin with because it's very forgiving of over-dilution (basically, you can't). And if it does go horribly wrong varnish dries slowly enough that you have plenty of time to wipe away any excess or wipe it all off with white spirit if need be.

Top tip: clean the relevant bits of your equipment thoroughly every time.

 

[ED65]

Oh and if you're not using a spray booth remember to wear your respirator, every time. No exceptions.

 

[beech1948]

ED65,

I sort of agree with you at least re varnish. However, ther appear to be numerous different types of paint available eg Morrells.

Spray what: 3 8ft table bases a week + 3 tops. Plus all the usual small jobs. Twice a year I make 80 to 100 small wooden toys for the local Hospice to sell and hand painting is a PITA. Maybe 2 to 3 dressers a month.

Paint types: I have not got a clue. Nitros, lacquer, water based, etc etc

 

[RobinBHM]

Id be happy to show you, but unfortunately arent in your neck of the woods.

We spray joinery mostly with pump systems, but also have a SATA gravity guns for spraying small things like colour samples etc.

You are right, learning spraying is difficult because its not easy to get the information as a hobbiest. Sprayable paint for timber is considered trade or industrial, so information on products, techniques etc are only available when you have an account and can see the technical rep. Its hard to know which products to use and what spray system to use it with

Also spraying is one of those skills that uses very high precision equipment usually in a messy environment.

What spray equipment do you have?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

You need to be clear whether you will be using rattle cans (entirely adequate for occasional smaller items) or higher volume/larger items.

The former can be done in any workshop - cover adjacent surfaces with newspaper, ensure decent ventilation, damp down dust and wait for a few hours after any woodworking activity. Lots of thin rather than thick coats. Don't start spray pointing at item but depress button and move smoothly across the item, releasing only when past the item.

Full size spray gun + possible compressor is a different ball game with far better fume extraction required and a well defined dust free environment where over spray will not be a problem.

 

[beech1948]

Terry and others,

I currently have a spray set up which is a turbo spray gadget with an adjustable gun. Its Ok for a few paints but not for most.

I have just constructed an insulated, powerd, heated finishing room 15ftx12ftx 10ft. I am prepared to add spray filter materials and have already acquired an explosion proof extractor but have yet to fit it.

I have a 3M7500 with P3 filters + face mask and googles but will buy something else if needed.

I have as well a box of throwaway painters overalls with hood.

I'm sort of ready but need to understand whqat to use, how to use it and how to stay safe.

I guess I will have to set up an account with Morrels and others and use their adfvice and knowledge. Learn as I go.

 

[RobinBHM]

Movac have a branch in Reading, maybe worth a try -I can give you our Movac reps details, he isnt in your area but would be able to pass on your local one.

I use their 1k water based paint sayerlack which is very good.

I would recommend trying water based or pre-cat laquers as a start.

Buy some measuring containers so that when thining material, you can get repeatable viscosity and just adjust for ambient temperature.

Be very methodical, keep notes of your setup otherwise you wont know what went right or wrong and you will struggle to analyse problems or repeat good setups.

To spray an item well you need suitable support, either a turntable for flat stuff or hooks for vertical.

Home spraying without a full spraybooth needs a spray setup for minimum overspray, so turbines or hvlp spraygun are worth considering.

Spray tip around 1.4 or 1.6 for furniture paints

Most paints need thinning, if very little comes out of thr gun, or the coat is orange peel, its too thick.

If you get the tip size correct and paint viscocity right, you are getting close to a good coat. If those are not right no amount of fiddling with the gun controls will get a good film.

Start by buying a 5 litre of paint and practice doing lots of sprayouts. I find melamine faced board is very good, the smooth surface shows clearly the spray pattern and quality of film. A roll of lining paper is an option.

Furniture like chairs or awkward shapes need quite advanced spraying routines, the skill is to avoid double and triple coats in some areas but at the same time being quick enough to keep a wet edge and avoid overspray landing on drying areas.

 

[beech1948]

RobinBHM,

Very many thanks for the advice. I will get started on Monday and will let you all know how I get on plus pics

Al

 

[meccarroll]

Terry and others,



1. I have a 3M7500 with P3 filters + face mask and googles but will buy something else if needed.

2. I have as well a box of throwaway painters overalls with hood.

3. I'm sort of ready but need to understand whqat to use, how to use it and how to stay safe.

4. I guess I will have to set up an account with Morrels and others and use their adfvice and knowledge. Learn as I go.

1. P3 filters??????? If you are spraying you need to consider the type of spray paint and which filter will provide the correct level of protection for that paint. A P3 filter, I believe, regulates the particle size the filter can prevent passing through it and will restrict smaller particles than say a P2 or P1 filter. It may not provide any protection for paint spraying though (vapours etc). 3M have a range of cartridge filters that may suite your requirements provided your set up has enough provision for exhaust and ventilation. Take a look here, I use the 3M 6059 cartridge filters myself. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/444511O/3m-respiratory-product-selection-guide.pdf

2. Some paints (just about all) also require suitable gloves and eye protection including facial skin protection. I buy throw away nitrile gloves in boxes which cost about £10- £15 per 100 and can last for several spray jobs, so not too expensive.

3. Vapours can be quite harmful for quite a while after spraying so be prepared to continue to wear reparatory equipment for some time after spraying in some cases.

4. It's quite easy to buy paint from suppliers but just be cautious when listening to some sales reps advice regarding the safety aspects of some products. I was advised by a sales rep a few year ago that Acid Catalysed paint had no harmful effects and needed no special precautions when being sprayed. My opinion is that it does need special precautions to control the vapours (formaldehyde) but can be used safely provided the correct safety precautions are followed.

Mark

 

[tomatwark]

Some one can certainly show you the basics, but like everything else in life it is practice that will help you.

As for finishes Morrells precat is a good finish for clear coat, I fine the water based finishes a bit bland.

Paint wise you can either use a mixed paint by Morrells or Sayerlac which are both good products, in solvent or water based.

However if you have the right gun and tip set up a lot of the high street paints will spray.

We spray a lot of Farrow and Ball paint rather than trying to get a colour match, the advantage of this is if a customer marks the furniture they can touch it up easily and so can we if it is marked during fitting.

Downside is the drying time between coats is a lot longer than getting the like of Morrells to mix paint up for you.

For a good entry level gun the Morrells Signature Guns are good http://morrells-sprayshop.co.uk/signature-i-sprayguns/

We have 4 and 3 of them have had 100's of litres of paint and lacquer through them.

If you wan to spray the likes of Farrow and Ball though you really need a more expensive gun which will handle the thicker paint.

 

[Andron1707]

Id be happy to show you, but unfortunately arent in your neck of the woods.

We spray joinery mostly with pump systems, but also have a SATA gravity guns for spraying small things like colour samples etc.

You are right, learning spraying is difficult because its not easy to get the information as a hobbiest. Sprayable paint for timber is considered trade or industrial, so information on products, techniques etc are only available when you have an account and can see the technical rep. Its hard to know which products to use and what spray system to use it with

Also spraying is one of those skills that uses very high precision equipment usually in a messy environment.

What spray equipment do you have?

Hello Robin, hope you are well. I have a question about spray system you may recommend. I've tried Morrels but it's low quality, have issues. Tried Sikkens was better than Morrels for sure but their local salesman have argument with my boss so more likely I can't use it. Looking to try Teknos but not sure if it will meet my expectations plus I need to force my boss to try another brand each time, I'm just looking for Rolls Royce into paint. Thank you

 

[recipio]

To do it properly you need to invest in a dedicated room with proper extraction..For most items I rely on the rattle cans. The trick is to heat them in hot water first for about 5 mins and use a handle for spray cans ( They will be too hot to hold anyway ) The spray will be more pressurized and less viscous so it will feel like you are using a spray gun.
A poor man's solution certainly but it works for me.

 

[RobinBHM]

Hello Robin, hope you are well. I have a question about spray system you may recommend. I've tried Morrels but it's low quality, have issues. Tried Sikkens was better than Morrels for sure but their local salesman have argument with my boss so more likely I can't use it. Looking to try Teknos but not sure if it will meet my expectations plus I need to force my boss to try another brand each time, I'm just looking for Rolls Royce into paint. Thank you

Without knowing your setup it’s hard to know what to advice

Personally the exterior joinery paints I like are: Remmers, Mightin and Teknos.

I have used Morrells Omnia in the past, but preferred Teknos.


What sort of issues are you having?

If it’s peeling due to the winter curing problem (probably the most common issue joinery companies suffer), then all water based paints will suffer, however Teknos is one of the softest joinery paints and thus quite flexible and forgiving

If the issues you are having is the finish then that is probably related to your set up or methods -joinery paint needs air assisted airless and you should set up with as low a paint pressure as possible -usually around 3 to 4 bar, the add in a small amount of air until the fan tails go, usually around 1.5 to 2 bar

if you are getting orange peel then the paint needs thinning or is too cold


Winter paint curing is more involved, but I can talk through that if thats the issue

 

[Sideways]

3. Vapours can be quite harmful for quite a while after spraying so be prepared to continue to wear reparatory equipment for some time after spraying in some cases.

Don't underestimate this. After going blind for a few hours from solvent exposure and scaring myself silly, I warn you never to spray without an organic vapour filter mask. Even if that's just a half mask.


From time to time, an ebay seller lists good, used small Iwata touch up sprayguns. These would be at their limit spraying an 8' tabletop but they are great for awkward work like frames, legs, etc if the 1.2mm nozzle is enough for you.
I use one for machinery enamel and also discovered the 3M PPS disposable cup system. This saves a load of clean up and I think it's well worth adopting.