Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[Tom K]

Not what it says here, and everybody I know who travels in London says it is much less congested. Not surprising really.

"Since launching in 2003, the Congestion Charge has significantly reduced traffic congestion and harmful emissions in London, paving the way for sustainable transportation and a greener, healthier future.17 Feb 2023"

https://www.intelligenttransport.co...in 2003, the,and a greener, healthier future.
Three charges apparently Pay to drive in London

Didn’t include LEZ as it only applies to over 1.25t and you are talking to imaginary friends again it only improved during lockdown congested as ever it was.
The misinformation continues there was a weather report showing how awful the pollution was to justify the restrictions but the report was filmed in Greenwich Park looking toward the city, trouble was Greenwich Park is in the ULEZ and so was the polluted area. Not to worry though charging people in Biggin Hill to drive to the supermarket twice a month will fix it.

 

[paulrbarnard]

My hand's are dirtied as I work in O&G, however from the inside I have seen change over the last 25yrs with less and less tolerance for any environmental impact.

I find orange oil is good at getting regular oil off your hands.

Seriously though industries have been moving in the right direction though not far enough by a long way. A big bugbear of mine is that people shout for the improvement but scream at the resulting cost rises. Emissions charges, dirty vehicle taxes (tires, brake dust based on weight etc) are just another necessity to break the cycle. It is also difficult to lambast the person working in the fields of China or India for buying their first TV now they have access to electricity from a coal fired power station for the first time in their life. They rightly point out that we all did that in our industrial past. The only problem now being the number of consumers contributing to the problem. Solutions are needed but it is good to lead by example and the expensive technologies we use today will be cost reduced and trickle down to those just getting access to technology.

 

[Jacob]

Didn’t include LEZ as it only applies to over 1.25t and you are talking to imaginary friends again it only improved during lockdown congested as ever it was.
The misinformation continues there was a weather report showing how awful the pollution was to justify the restrictions but the report was filmed in Greenwich Park looking toward the city, trouble was Greenwich Park is in the ULEZ and so was the polluted area. Not to worry though charging people in Biggin Hill to drive to the supermarket twice a month will fix it.

So it's all lies then? Thanks for letting me know! No point in reading this then Inner London Ultra Low Emission Zone Expansion One Year Report
Seems to be a lot of people involved in this scam - how do they share and distribute the profits?

 

[Tom K]

So it's all lies then? Thanks for letting me know! No point in reading this then Inner London Ultra Low Emission Zone Expansion One Year Report
Seems to be a lot of people involved in this scam - how do they share and distribute the profits?

I didn’t say anything about profits or scams it is more about propping up TFL and further road charging schemes. The next one is the new Silvertown tunnel and it’s toll charges and the toll charges that will be imposed on the Blackwall tunnel if you ever experienced the chaos that ensues if Blackwall is out of action you know there are no alternatives to using it.
Another odd little thing is in the works too just as Silvertown nears completion TFL are proposing an extension under the river to Thamesmead . It’s almost like they have a tunnel boring machine in need of some work.

 

[Adam W.]

If they cut the traffic, they won't need the tunnels.

 

[Jacob]

Oh dear, what's that quote from 'Loot' ? "Everything you say will be taken down, twisted and used in evidence against you"

I have no problem with the rush but we have to be mindful of the disproportional effect charging will have on the poorer drivers. Just because one is poor does not mean that ones reasons for owning a vehicle are any less valid than a rich person..

Very noble of you, but the same could be said of almost everything which has to be paid for by the individual - the cost has a disproportionate effect on the less well off.
Not in itself an argument against clean air measures, and in fact a very old and often misused argument against all manner of reforms.

 

[Grandad455]

@Kev.k , last warning. Be civil or you are gone.

This user appears to have joined this forum to vent their spleen. Whilst a certain amount of off topic content has meaning and is worth including, I do not think this forum should be for anything other than workshop related comment. I exclude from this the Jokes threads, which usually lighten the day. My local online news paper also has a very belligerent contributor called kev, I'm sure they contribute such views in order to wind people up.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Not what it says here, and everybody I know who travels in London says it is much less congested. Not surprising really.

"Since launching in 2003, the Congestion Charge has significantly reduced traffic congestion and harmful emissions in London, paving the way for sustainable transportation and a greener, healthier future.17 Feb 2023"

https://www.intelligenttransport.co...in 2003, the,and a greener, healthier future.
Three charges apparently Pay to drive in London

Obviously your reading/taking in the "Gumpf" as many roads are gridlocked from morning to night due to LTN's and other road blocks so everything funnelled into a pinch point.
It's so bad buses can't make time tables and we have ambulances loosing patients as can't get to them in time along with police and fire brigade up in arms about it all plus turning many areas into Drug havens as they ride bikes delivering drugs and can't be caught.
Hackney is dire. and Stoke Newington got fluffyfied with road restrictions and other things trying to make it all bijou = turned it into a Ghetto Stoke Newington Church Street Fully Central is dead most of the time now shops are closing down as not making any money from cycle types.

Along my area 6-7pm roads dead all the shops are struggling as need passing trade which no longer getting and they keep putting prices up to keep a float but it's a sinking ship.
Friends chip shops been hit so much with price increases in things like oils.Packaging.etc plus energy costs.plus spuds which are now around £28 a sack!.
And has he say's i can't keep adding as 90% of my trade is locals and there getting less and less as can't afford £15 for fish and chips.

Try getting a trade! none want to come as apart from too costly as round here have a diesel van/car even euro6 is £7 odd an hour and ones that do come charge a lot.

Khans killed the west end he had to back down over CC hours and change them but it's still dying up there and there and in the city many places are or have closed.

Street air is pretty good apart from where traffic is held up on purpose(go read the script on it!) it's well below WHO guide lines yet the tube where he wants us all to travel on are 10-20 times WHO limits but hes always quiet on that when it's broached and if question him on likes of twitter he blocks you.
TFL monkeys tried to get a 10mph limit around the city/central London but got told ........off

 

[Tom K]

If they cut the traffic, they won't need the tunnels.

Trouble is you can’t stop the traffic without destroying the economy

 

[Jacob]

Obviously your reading/taking in the "Gumpf" as many roads are gridlocked from morning to night due to LTN's and other road blocks so everything funnelled into a pinch point.
It's so bad buses can't make time tables and we have ambulances loosing patients as can't get to them in time along with police and fire brigade up in arms about it all plus turning many areas into Drug havens as they ride bikes delivering drugs and can't be caught.
Hackney is dire. and Stoke Newington got fluffyfied with road restrictions and other things trying to make it all bijou = turned it into a Ghetto Stoke Newington Church Street Fully Central is dead most of the time now shops are closing down as not making any money from cycle types.

Along my area 6-7pm roads dead all the shops are struggling as need passing trade which no longer getting and they keep putting prices up to keep a float but it's a sinking ship.
Friends chip shops been hit so much with price increases in things like oils.Packaging.etc plus energy costs.plus spuds which are now around £28 a sack!.
And has he say's i can't keep adding as 90% of my trade is locals and there getting less and less as can't afford £15 for fish and chips.

Try getting a trade! none want to come as apart from too costly as round here have a diesel van/car even euro6 is £7 odd an hour and ones that do come charge a lot.

Khans killed the west end he had to back down over CC hours and change them but it's still dying up there and there and in the city many places are or have closed.

Street air is pretty good apart from where traffic is held up on purpose(go read the script on it!) it's well below WHO guide lines yet the tube where he wants us all to travel on are 10-20 times WHO limits but hes always quiet on that when it's broached and if question him on likes of twitter he blocks you.
TFL monkeys tried to get a 10mph limit around the city/central London but got told ........off

Sounds like good arguments for even more stringent discouragement of vehicle traffic.
It's not just London - even in a tiny village like mine people complain about the parking and the delays. The school run is a big factor and holds everything up. Basically too many cars on the road.

 

[selectortone]

I do not think this forum should be for anything other than workshop related comment.

With respect, it does say at the top of this forum:

General Chat (Off-Topic)​

Post thread
For non-woodworking related topics - yes I know it's a scary thought but there is a life outside woodworking.

 

[Jacob]

Trouble is you can’t stop the traffic without destroying the economy

Not destroying but changing the economy. You get massive objections to town centre pedestrianisation but once they've settled in they are almost always seen as a long overdue benefit.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Didn’t include LEZ as it only applies to over 1.25t and you are talking to imaginary friends again it only improved during lockdown congested as ever it was.
The misinformation continues there was a weather report showing how awful the pollution was to justify the restrictions but the report was filmed in Greenwich Park looking toward the city, trouble was Greenwich Park is in the ULEZ and so was the polluted area. Not to worry though charging people in Biggin Hill to drive to the supermarket twice a month will fix it.

They can drive as much as like as long as pay your £12.50 your not polluting then! Drive on sir it's fine.
Don't we just love it when have Snow flakes that reside In there sheds out in the middle of no where and not effected by any of this yet bang and beat there drums trying to pontificate about others that have to try to survive with like of President/Night Mayor for London whose main thing now is getting sales and pats on head for his book sales and not about the state of London as just had another double stabbing today to go with the ones yesterday and day before.............................................................and so it goes! But £12.50 please.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Sounds like good arguments for even more stringent discouragement of vehicle traffic.
It's not just London - even in a tiny village like mine people complain about the parking and the delays. The school run is a big factor and holds everything up. Basically too many cars on the road.

Not at all 90% is poor traffic management designs and all moan no matter what even if no ones holding them up!

 

[Adam W.]

Trouble is you can’t stop the traffic without destroying the economy

Not so sure about that.

When I cycle down upper and Lower Thames street and along the Embankment in the mornings, most private cars have just the driver in them.

 

[Mel769]

the average MP lives with/next to us/you, well almost
but
those with the clout who have no idea what's going on.....living in secure housing......filling their pockets .....are in control.......
Where's all the money gone for HS2.....? I suggest pocket filling.....who's doing the accounts.....?
I've always thought if you want to be a politition or a high up civil servant inc families
their full banking/tax dealings should be open to the general public.......
Well that should finish the Labour party for a start...but they claim to be just like working class.....
Conserv's have always had money....

Anyway who voted Khan in........?

man.....done my time in the UK n glad I'm out of it.....
Biggest traffic traffic jam we had last week was around 100 sheep.....hahaha.......

Nice I'm assuming when stuck in a traffic jam of sheep you might get that "fluffy" feeling?, maybe a good time to listen to some pink Floyd and chill out; in comparison to to traffic jam of cars when all you twitching like a witch on speed.

 

[niall Y]

Very noble of you, but the same could be said of almost everything which has to be paid for by the individual - the cost has a disproportionate effect on the less well off.
Not in itself an argument against clean air measures, and in fact a very old and often misused argument against all manner of reforms.

True, though It is nor an argument against change,. Financial help will have to be given to the less-well-off to help make the transition. Perhaps the money generated bi Mr Kahn's scheme could go towards financing this.

Just because we have good intentions, does not justify us riding rough-shod over those least able to cope with the extra cost, Poorer drivers will find themselves in a Catch 22 situation, where they can't afford to change their vehicle and the extra cost of the charge will ensure that thy will never be in a position to do so.

 

[Mel769]

Not what it says here, and everybody I know who travels in London says it is much less congested. Not surprising really.

Pull the other one it's got bells on it x

 

[Jacob]

..... Poorer drivers will find themselves in a Catch 22 situation, where they can't afford to change their vehicle and the extra cost of the charge will ensure that thy will never be in a position to do so.

Yep. It's a well known phenomenon affecting a wide range of issues, generally known as "the poverty trap". Housing is the big one - plenty of work in London but not paying enough to cover rent..etc ...etc

 

[Jacob]

Pull the other one it's got bells on it x

But would it get any better if they encouraged more traffic by removing various constraints?