Keto diet

[doctor Bob]

Good luck Artie, be nice if a few of these diet threads were kept up to date with progress and success or failure

 

[artie]

Good luck Artie, be nice if a few of these diet threads were kept up to date with progress and success or failure

Thanks Bob.
I'll make it a priority.
I feel that way about a lot of threads where members give varying advice but seldom get any feedback.

I must go read some other diet threads.

 

[SamG340]

It's just the Atkins on toast ( apart from you're not allowed toast )

I've heard good things

 

[sammy.se]

Counting calories is the only truly scientific way to lose weight.

It's simple science: if you burn more calories than you ingest you lose weight, if you ingest more than you burn you put it on.

Totally wrong. That ignores the entire endocrinology (hormones) aspects of the human system.
We are not engine's. Hormones in our body affect the way calories are metabolised.

 

[sammy.se]

When my head is in the right space, keto works great for me. I feel healthier, lose weight and hunger cravings are reduced/gone.

My problem is in my head (emotional eating etc).

Here are some science based resources:
"Low Carb MD" podcast
"The case for Keto" by Gary Taubes
Jason Fung
Eric Westman

 

[D_W]

works great for a short term ,but becomes a pain to keep the amount of calories around that you need unless you want to eat pure fat.

short term as in you can blast off 15 pounds with no effort in 30-40 days (assume starting point around 200 pounds, that's my reference) but the inconvenience if you're actually in ketosis, you can get bumped out of it super easily and each time you bump out, you'll be incented to do something else.

long term proven safe diet if done right, though it may not be as healthy as other diets (the long term use of it is for diabetics and epileptics).

Healthy version of the diet assumes a healthy fat balance that's not that easy to get (20% saturated / 80% unsaturated).

Only other notable memory is if you have something you do physically that involves walking up an incline or jogging or something, it's not the diet for that - you'll feel like you're working twice as hard as there are no quick access calories. For walking or sitting around, you won't notice the lack of quick energy.

If you're following it, though, it's almost impossible to not lose weight.

 

[D_W]

Look up Dr Michael Mosley, he has done lots of research, trialled on himself to sort out being prediabetic and then gone on to develop and refine, also done tv shows abour it. Fast 800 is his diet regime. You can sign up online (for a fee) and have 12 weeks of meal plans, shopping lists and recipes delivered to you on a weekly basis, along wiith access to a group foum, excercise plans and some explanation of the science behind it. Takes the ballsache out of writng menus and shopping lists.
You can tailor the online menus for any number of people and it will update the shopping lists.

Oh, and the meals are pretty good.

Good luck.

Boy does "recipes delivered to you" sound like an expensive way to lose weight without a long-term structure.

 

[NormanB]

It looks like we may be going on a keto diet.

SWMBO is looking into it.

Anyone here have any experience?

The Keto diet is a potential solution for all. However it is not an easy diet (or rather lifestyle) at all, particularly for those brought up in the West.

There is a great deal to understand before you actually get it:
1. The role of all sugars in the dietary mix (both natural and added).
2. The role of insulin in controlling blood sugar.
3. How insulin controls blood sugar.
4. The implication and impact of fat laid down around visceral organs via insulin.
5. The concept of insulin resistance.
6. The journey to Type 2 Diabetes.

The biggest difficulty (apart from gaining an understanding of the point above is - society.
Our society, like all all in the West, is carbohydrate and added sugar rich. Controlling your intake of sugars in this context is just as difficult as giving up smoking.

Do your research, in this context, and you are more likely to be successful.

For those that say it works for some and not for others - true the others did not understand nor had had the commitment to maintain the discipline to do it in a society that bombard you with you carbs wherever you go.

I have been doing it successfully for three years, so has my wife. My daughter and husband were so impressed they have taken it up and been equally successful - we have influenced others who have been equally successful but the details of that are irrelevant.

 

[Inspector]

Genetic makeup has to be considered too and people should take that into consideration. First Nation peoples in Canada have 3 to 4 times the rate of diabetes as non-natives. They evolved eating a high protein diet with virtually no carbohydrates and zip for sugar and do not do well on a western style diet especially a junk food filled one. Lots of us others even among those that evolved eating more grains have trouble with it too. Reducing or taking out the carbs won't hurt you in the least and this from a sugar lover. Choice is yours however....at least until it isn't.

Pete

 

[sammy.se]

The Keto diet is a potential solution for all. However it is not an easy diet (or rather lifestyle) at all, particularly for those brought up in the West.

There is a great deal to understand before you actually get it:
1. The role of all sugars in the dietary mix (both natural and added).
2. The role of insulin in controlling blood sugar.
3. How insulin controls blood sugar.
4. The implication and impact of fat laid down around visceral organs via insulin.
5. The concept of insulin resistance.
6. The journey to Type 2 Diabetes.

The biggest difficulty (apart from gaining an understanding of the point above is - society.
Our society, like all all in the West, is carbohydrate and added sugar rich. Controlling your intake of sugars in this context is just as difficult as giving up smoking.

Do your research, in this context, and you are more likely to be successful.

For those that say it works for some and not for others - true the others did not understand nor had had the commitment to maintain the discipline to do it in a society that bombard you with you carbs wherever you go.

I have been doing it successfully for three years, so has my wife. My daughter and husband were so impressed they have taken it up and been equally successful - we have influenced others who have been equally successful but the details of that are irrelevant.

Great post, +1 to all of this.

 

[RobinBHM]

I’m not sure long term keto diets are terribly healthy, certainly anybody considering a keto diet should consider the risks:

keto diets:
1) May have high fat content, so could raise bad cholestoral levels.

2) keto diets contain the types of foods that are associated with cancer risks

3) keto diets can hasten kidney disease or kidney stones. There is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration

4) Keto is not safe for those with any conditions involving their pancreas, liver, thyroid or gallbladder

5) a keto diet depletes potassium, this leads to high high blood pressure. Potassium supplements or lots of vegetables should be considered on a keto diet.

 

[NormanB]

I’m not sure long term keto diets are terribly healthy, certainly anybody considering a keto diet should consider the risks:

keto diets:
1) May have high fat content, so could raise bad cholestoral levels.

2) keto diets contain the types of foods that are associated with cancer risks

3) keto diets can hasten kidney disease or kidney stones. There is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration

4) Keto is not safe for those with any conditions involving their pancreas, liver, thyroid or gallbladder

5) a keto diet depletes potassium, this leads to high high blood pressure. Potassium supplements or lots of vegetables should be considered on a keto diet.

I am pretty sure your post can be categorised as a unfounded and ill informed.

 

[artie]

Update after week 1

First week so not quite keto yet but definitely low carb.
I cut out potatoes and bread, but there was potato salad and beans in stock so used them up.
I also decided I'd add intermittent fasting to the mix, so just eating from around midday to around 6pm.

Result a weight reduction of 900grams.
80 kg last Sunday morning, 79.1 this morning.

Quite happy with that.

 

[johnny]

I’m not sure long term keto diets are terribly healthy, certainly anybody considering a keto diet should consider the risks:

keto diets:
1) May have high fat content, so could raise bad cholestoral levels.

2) keto diets contain the types of foods that are associated with cancer risks

3) keto diets can hasten kidney disease or kidney stones. There is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration

4) Keto is not safe for those with any conditions involving their pancreas, liver, thyroid or gallbladder

5) a keto diet depletes potassium, this leads to high high blood pressure. Potassium supplements or lots of vegetables should be considered on a keto diet.

This sort of post is illinformed and very unfortunate . It is completely lacking in even a basic understanding of how our bodies Physiology actually works .

There is so much properly researched information in this excellent thread which is also substantiated by actual personal experience .

It is good for us to question everything we see and read.......it is how we learn ...but to make statements like '4) Keto is not safe for those with any conditions involving their pancreas, liver, thyroid or gallbladder' is not only factually incorrect,.. it is misleading and it shows a clear lack of understanding of how our bodies work.

 

[johnny]

Update after week 1

First week so not quite keto yet but definitely low carb.
I cut out potatoes and bread, but there was potato salad and beans in stock so used them up.
I also decided I'd add intermittent fasting to the mix, so just eating from around midday to around 6pm.

Result a weight reduction of 900grams.
80 kg last Sunday morning, 79.1 this morning.

Quite happy with that.

thats a good start Artie . I find low Carb hard for the first 4-5 days then the Carb cravings for me lessen considerably and I naturally eat less because I no longer feel continually hungry . My biggest challenge is bread biscuits and cake so I just make sure that they are not in the house so I am not tempted.

Living with a Carbohydrate tolerant and non-Diabetic partner is a challenge for me so I ask her to keep biscuits cake and bread well hidden so that I do not see it and am not tempted.

One of the ways I have found helpful in switching to a Keto or low Carb high Fat and protein diet lifestyle is to always have something healthy in the fridge to eat for those times when you need to snack. I use small cubes of hard cheese like Cathedral Mature cheddar or half a boiled egg or oily fish . I also occasionally snack on a teaspoonful of peanut butter or double cream for variety and whilst I'm aware that the peanut butter contains a small amount of sugar I figure its a insignificant amount in the scheme of things and as I monitor my blood glucose levels I can see if anything i eat is having a particularly adverse effect .

Like you I typically eat no breakfast sometimes no lunch until 2pm or later especially if I am fully occupied with something and I mostly do not feel hungry. When I do have lunch I might eat an egg with field mushroom and spinach or sardines/mackrel/pilchards or egg bacon and mushrooms etc I sometimes make my own soup like carrot & parsnip with a little garlic, pepper and a dash of cream and the taste is to die for . A mug of home made soup is very filling and satisfying and healthy real food .

Occasionally we have a fasting day which is typically a Monday so we might have just a cheese & mushroom omelette for dinner . its surprisingly easy to adopt a one day a week fast as a lifestyle once Carbs and refined foods have been significantly reduced .
Good luck with the Keto I shall be following this thread with interest .

 

[AJB Temple]

I have tried Keto a few years ago when Dr Mike Mosely was first promoting it. (Incidentally I think now he has morphed into just a salesman with a new scheme each year). It definitely worked for wight loss, but I found it tedious to sustain and eventually slipped off it. I also did the fasting diet he promoted, which also works but is hard to sustain.

Lockdown indolence led to me gradually piling on weight and becoming pre-diabetic. I am 6' 2" and ended up at 137.5 kg. My doctor sent me on "One You Kent" diet and exercise programme. This is free and versions are run countrywide. This is not a prescriptive diet but more a set of tools and learning about food groups, and includes exercise classes. It starts with a 12 week intensive programme and lasts a year. Typically the people who achieve success with this count calories and ensure their diet is balanced.

Counting calories is MUCH harder than I thought. It is a fool's errand unless you weigh your food initially to establish how much you are really eating. I was amazed how many calories some foods contain. I used My Fitness Pal app (as someone mentioned above) and was scrupulously careful. The idea is to establish permanent lifestyle choices that we are happy to sustain.

I started in late September 2021 and currently weigh 120Kg, so that is a loss of 17.5Kg (nearly 39 pounds). Plateau periods seem inevitable and I have accepted that it will take time to get to my goal of 95-98Kg. On the NHS BMI app this would still make me overweight - they suggest a max of 88Kg. However, I have a broad and muscly build and realistically 88Kg is not right for me. I hope to reach my goal at some point in late summer. I am in a sustained push now, expect to have one more plateau, then another sustained push.

To achieve results so far I think the key things have been: cut out all alcohol, stop eating bread, eat hardly any potatoes, cut out orange juice, no sweets and biscuits. Sugar is very much the enemy and alcohol unfortunately is empty calories.

I find that I have to weigh myself daily. This is to prevent slippage (and I know is not recommended). Just as important a guide for me is waist measurement (It needs to get down to 32" and is not there yet or anywhere close) and mirror aesthetics.

I think some form of structured exercise and stretching is very important to really get the feeling of wellbeing.

Good luck with your keto plan and I hope it works for you. I would suggest you develop a sustainability plan for what you will do when you have reached your target. This is to prevent the yo-yo effect starting and I wish I had done this when I first did the keto programme.

Diets / lifestyle choices only work if we want them to. It's not easy at all.

 

[artie]

Good luck with the Keto I shall be following this thread with interest .

Good luck with your keto plan and I hope it works for you. I would suggest you develop a sustainability plan for what you will do when you have reached your target.

Thank you both for some very useful information.

At 80kg I'm not considered overweight it's just that it's in the wrong place.

Too much around my middle.

A diet isn't a big problem for me to stick to, I've been gluten free for a long time over 15 yrs

The thing about keto is to gain variety I've reintroduced meat to my diet, maybe I can phase most of it out again as I progress?

 

[AJB Temple]

I found that red meat and chicken in the keto diet became a bit repulsive after a while. If you can tolerate fish you may find it much more digestible. Oily fish such as salmon and mackerel work well. Likewise Tuna (though some people worry about mercury content). I found that the Aldi smoked salmon or cured salmon (gravadlax) is very good and is also cheap - a 160 gram pack is £2. I would eat this with hard boiled eggs. In my case it is palatable and It fits with the keto diet and is also very easy to calorie count. Filling too. Sodium content is a little high obviously in smoked salmon because of the curing process. I also made or bought red pepper paste, which is great for jazzing up fish dishes and eggs. Pelegonia Avar is a high quality one available from Waitrose, though you can make your own quite easily.

You will probably get to a point where you find that things like sausages and bacon are not ideal. Most bacon is cured with nitrates and many people regard it as unhealthy for this reason. You can get "clean" bacon if you hunt around. Most shop bought sausages contain carb based fillers and tend to have a lot of preservatives.

 

[artie]

I found that red meat and chicken in the keto diet became a bit repulsive after a while. If you can tolerate fish you may find it much more digestible. Oily fish such as salmon and mackerel work well. Likewise Tuna (though some people worry about mercury content). I found that the Aldi smoked salmon or cured salmon (gravadlax) is very good and is also cheap - a 160 gram pack is £2. I would eat this with hard boiled eggs. In my case it is palatable and It fits with the keto diet and is also very easy to calorie count. Filling too. Sodium content is a little high obviously in smoked salmon because of the curing process. I also made or bought red pepper paste, which is great for jazzing up fish dishes and eggs. Pelegonia Avar is a high quality one available from Waitrose, though you can make your own quite easily.

You will probably get to a point where you find that things like sausages and bacon are not ideal. Most bacon is cured with nitrates and many people regard it as unhealthy for this reason. You can get "clean" bacon if you hunt around. Most shop bought sausages contain carb based fillers and tend to have a lot of preservatives.

I drastically cut my meat consumption many years ago, I even went full veggie for a while.

Although bacon tastes good I am aware it's not that good for me in the long run, but for a short time until I get a handle on this it'll do.
I've noticed my toilet routine has changed and have read that constipation can be a problem, any comments on that?

 

[sammy.se]

Well done Artie!

Here's a tip for being new to Keto: As you see results, you might think "This is great, if I cut down fat consumption I will lose even more" - so people will try only eating lean tuna, lean fish, lean meat etc etc.
This is one of those false economies - Keto works well with fat in the diet. Extra Virgin Olive oil, and Kerry's Butter (from grass fed cows) is good for you, as is meat fats if you like that.

Try and avoid seed oils if you can - like sunflower oil, rapeseed oil, corn oil (yeah it's technically a grain I guess) - these are highly processed and aren't really fit for human consumption. They used to be used in industry before it was sold to humans to eat!

Add spinach and any leaves to your diet to help with constipation. Any leaf is fine on keto. Personally, I have also found that drinking a little bit more water while on Keto is good more me - but that might be true regardless of diet!

As others have said before, chemically processed meat isn't anti-Keto (unless they contain carby fillers), but it's just not that nice for your body... You will probably wean yourself off once you discover how nice a steak is with some butter and salad dressed in olive oil!