K5 KITY WOODWORKING MACHINE

[Lons]

I assume that this is the thread that you are referring to :-

kity-planer-thicknesser-and-table-saw-t81037.html

The machines are clearly in the wrong orientation on the rat eaten table as can be seen on the pictures posted by another member and the problem could have been resolved if the op of that thread had responded to questions.
I am surprised that you point to that thread when your input was noticeable by it's absence.

Sorry Powertools but I have to chuck in my twopennerth here. Somehow I missed that thread otherwise I would have posted, think I was away though I possibly provided a manual via email if he contacted which might be why the OP didn't post again. I've sent out several hundred now all over the world, many who contact me direct.

To clarify and contradict your suggestions in the thread I would state that you were 100% wrong and that the saw, motor and planer/thicknesser are fixed exactly the correct orientation for a K5. The belt on this combi is intended to run in a figure of 8 configuration and suggesting a shorter belt was evidence that you have no experience of that machine or you would not have made such a basic mistake, however well meaning it clearly was.

And just to clarify MY experience: I was branch manager of a company who sold Kity machines among most other major brands and I was personally involved, I also have owned a K5 for 25 years as well as a Kity spindle moulder and several other makes of machinery. I have been woodworking since the age of 12 (now 66) and large machinery has mostly been part of that.

You don't need a city and guilds (I do have qualifications btw), but very definitely need to know what you're talking about before offering advice to newbies who could easily do themselves harm.

Cheers
Bob

ps : My K5 is a later one but here's a pic of an early version I had handy - note the orientation!

 

[blackrodd]

Nice kity pic there Lons, looks to be the same as mine, which is marked 1979 on the motor plate.

You're mention of catering to buyers orders, explains the recent saw/planer combo for sale on fleabay,
I assumed the spindle moulder was missing, not realising it may not supplied on that table, seen a couple like that.
There appears to be about 6 different models, spanning the 20 odd years, does that seem right to you?
I had a "flyer" from the french seller where i got my 2 drive belts from today, they showed the new version of a 6 function, by Scheppach, on reading the bumph, they makers stated "not for use on oak or trade use" :shock:
I don't think anything will touch the original for professional quality and value, despite the size.

Regards Rodders

 

[Lons]

Nice kity pic there Lons, looks to be the same as mine, which is marked 1979 on the motor plate.

You're mention of catering to buyers orders, explains the recent saw/planer combo for sale on fleabay,
I assumed the spindle moulder was missing, not realising it may not supplied on that table, seen a couple like that.
There appears to be about 6 different models, spanning the 20 odd years, does that seem right to you?
I had a "flyer" from the french seller where i got my 2 drive belts from today, they showed the new version of a 6 function, by Scheppach, on reading the bumph, they makers stated "not for use on oak or trade use" :shock:
I don't think anything will touch the original for professional quality and value, despite the size.

Regards Rodders

Hi Rodders

That isn't my model just a leaflet from my time in the trade, don't know why i keep things. :lol: Mine's the later beige col square leg version I bought new around 1989, one of the last before they introduced the Bestcombi.

The K5 was always, to the best of my knowledge supplied only as a 4 or 5 function machine though I'm not 100% certain of that tbh as it may well have been trial marketed as individuals well before my time. You could however buy the machines, motor and table seperately so There's no reason why they couldn't by buit up over a period of time apart from that being a very costly way to do so.
The 5th function of the K5 was the morticing table & chuck which could be bought later as an accessory and it was the larger K704 derivatives where you specced your own configuration around a table and motor..
The bestcombi 2000 5 and 6 function was a later move away from original separates and based loosely on the later CK26 and direct drive combi. I had left the industry by that time.

Statements about "not oak" etc are stupid. Original marketing showed the K5 building furniture and kitchen doors. I hate to think how much oak and other hardwoods mine has successfully processed in 25 years. I was however directly aimed at the DIY market or very small tradesman.

I have the whole of that leaflet, 4 pages, scanned in to pdf if you want it Rodders, just pm me your email address if you do.

regards
Bob

 

[blackrodd]

Powertools, When the june '14 thread was posted I was away, otherwise I would have corrected you're mistake
over the motor pulley rotation, It's a different model than you'rs, as Lons pointed out, which you didn't seem to understand.
Apprenticed, I spent the first 12 years of my working life in a joinery shop, making stairs, doors and any joinery and then in the saw mill for the same company, with 12 other machinists and sawyers and have, after 2 years in a door factory, set up and worked most wood machines excluding the double ended tenoner
I also have worked in the firms saw shop, making Stenner bandsaw blades from coils of steel, cut to length one was (32'6") and another one (28'6") punch the teeth out with a fly press, file and lap joint each end and braze in the furnace, etc, etc, Gullet sharpen and set circular saws, some bigger than me, hand saws, tenon saws etc, etc,
Grinding Planer irons 30" long, 24" etc, making spindle cutters from high speed steel bar, all by hand, also cutters for the six cutter and five cutter, set these machines up and made thousands upon thousands of metres of mouldings, flooring,T&G etc, etc.
I have a hm 250 planer thicknesser and a nasty saw bench that jumps on the start, record lathe morticer etc, etc,
But At the moment I use my 1979 KITY K15, easier and simpler, today I made seat and back slats for the victorian cast iron benches on the greens.

My Father bought a new Bestcombi in around 1995, I used it more than he did, Brilliant bit of kit, well made and very, very functional.
My son ended up with it in 2007, but I got the k5 a couple of years ago.
My old firm closed down the mill and timber yard 10 years ago, now they buy ready machined stuff from the same place as do Travis perkins and jewson etc, So I was at the end of a 100 years old era, and no one to pass some knowledge on to.
So now you know some about my work,
And I'm still learning new things every day, like trying not to make silly pompous statements.
Regards Rodders

 

[powertools]

My Kity & Guilds comes nowhere near the level of expertise that you guys seem to have. My knowledge, experience and interest in Kity machines pre dates both the Bestcombi and K5 and I think that this may be causing some confusion.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of you to reopen the old thread and we could resume this conversation there. The machine in question was neither a Bestcombi or K5.

 

[Lons]

Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of you to reopen the old thread and we could resume this conversation there. The machine in question was neither a Bestcombi or K5.

Of course it's not a K5 and no chance of being a Bestcombi as the 555 and 511 were long gone by the time that was introduced at the end of the eighties, however the system of fitting single machines around a central motor was the forerunner to both the K5 and K7 series and that is exactly what that is. I have information on the much earlier machines but that pic was the one I had to hand and I posted it to show the principle.
The motor rotation dictated that the belt runs in a figure of eight otherwise blades on both machines and as far as I'm aware though could be wrong, Kity didn't offer a seperate motor with the reverse rotation at that time. Nothing wrong with the positioning on the tables, it works very well which is why Kity used that configuration on their machines for so many years.

Having re-read my post I didn't make that clear and was probably a little blunt which wasn't my intention. I've no desire to be drawn into further discussions which can only result in escalating argument which benefit no-one so won't be reopening old threads for that purpose. Life is far too short.

Your experience of the earlier machines is very valuable Powertools and can't be dismissed. I owned a large Kity tablesaw and planer thicknesser while living in Humberside in the mid seventies and they were very solid, reliable machines which due to lack of space I unfortunately had to sell when moving back to Northumberland, something I'll always regret as the saw was vastly superior to my current SIP 01332 though the Robland 310 planer I have now beats the Kity hands down. I managed to keep my ancient 623 spindle moulder which had a hard life before I bought it s/h and it's still going strong. It's a great shame imo that the Kity brand suffered as it did as it was a well respected brand around here. I certainly sold a lot of the larger combis and separates to local industry, and the hundreds of k5 manuals and K7 info I've sent around the world in the last few years shows just how solid those machines were.

cheers
Bob

 

[powertools]

Lons.
Thanks for the reply and I agree that life is far to short to enter into pointless discussion but you did state earlier on in this thread and I quote:-


To clarify and contradict your suggestions in the thread I would state that you were 100% wrong and that the saw, motor and planer/thicknesser are fixed exactly the correct orientation for a K5. The belt on this combi is intended to run in a figure of 8 configuration and suggesting a shorter belt was evidence that you have no experience of that machine or you would not have made such a basic mistake, however well meaning it clearly was.

Later on in the thread you say and I quote:-

Of course it's not a K5 and no chance of being a Bestcombi as the 555 and 511 were long gone by the time that was introduced at the end of the eighties, however the system of fitting single machines around a central motor was the forerunner to both the K5 and K7 series and that is exactly what that is. I have information on the much earlier machines but that pic was the one I had to hand and I posted it to show the principle.
The motor rotation dictated that the belt runs in a figure of eight otherwise blades on both machines and as far as I'm aware though could be wrong, Kity didn't offer a seperate motor with the reverse rotation at that time. Nothing wrong with the positioning on the tables, it works very well which is why Kity used that configuration on their machines for so many years.


In the thread that Rodders dragged up from 18 months ago I would just like someone to tell me were I went wrong, both machines shown in that thread need to rotate in the same direction in that orientation on the table as the infeed for both is from the same side, any suggestion of running a belt in a figure of 8 to either machine would reverse the direction.

You and I both seem to have the same enthusiasm for the older Kity machines and as soon as my new house and workshop build are completed I will scan all original manuals and pictures of the machines that I have and between us we should be able to help anyone with a Kity machine of any age.

 

[Lons]

In the thread that Rodders dragged up from 18 months ago I would just like someone to tell me were I went wrong, both machines shown in that thread need to rotate in the same direction in that orientation on the table as the infeed for both is from the same side, any suggestion of running a belt in a figure of 8 to either machine would reverse the direction.

You and I both seem to have the same enthusiasm for the older Kity machines and as soon as my new house and workshop build are completed I will scan all original manuals and pictures of the machines that I have and between us we should be able to help anyone with a Kity machine of any age.

I actually have one of the old 65 page brochures which includes the 535 planer. God knows why I keep so much stuff.

Absolutely correct that a figure of eight belt reverses the rotation which was exactly my point as all the single ended motors supplied at the time, (at least all those we bought in) were anticlockwise rotation when facing the pulley / towards you with the pulley to your right, i.e. the wrong rotation if mounted to the left of both machines therefore figure of eight required.

The double ended motor was different but that was supplied specifically for the larger K7 series combis where the motor was centrally mounted and planer and saw located at opposite corners of the table.

The machine in that thread by the way was a real dog in that those separates were never intended to be on that table. The table is actually a forerunner of the K5 table and too small, it has had a replacement crap chipboard top fitted, I think you referred to it as rat eaten. If you compare the legs on the pic I posted of a K5 you'll see the legs are the same but Kity neatened it up with the later models by removing the braces and fitting side panels instead.

cheers
Bob

 

[MattH]

Hi Bob,

I tried to PM you, but am not authorised.

I have, like many others on this forum it seems, have bought a Kity K5/Bestcombi machine that has no manual!
I see that you have been able to help others out with a copy of the manual, please could I also bother you for a pdf copy?

Many thanks,

Matt

 

[Lons]

Hi Bob,

I tried to PM you, but am not authorised.

I have, like many others on this forum it seems, have bought a Kity K5/Bestcombi machine that has no manual!
I see that you have been able to help others out with a copy of the manual, please could I also bother you for a pdf copy?

Many thanks,

Matt

No problem Matt

If you email me on bob(dot)lonsdale51(at)btinternet(dot)com I'll reply with the files. Note that they are for the K5 model immediately previous to the Bestcombi but very little difference so will still be of use.

cheers
Bob