Not really, (Well maybe some do).
These (often just a scrap of plywood) are more common than the long sticks
Just use the blade guard!
- Thread starter Doug71
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Not really, (Well maybe some do).
These (often just a scrap of plywood) are more common than the long sticks
I hate those wee push things as above. Remember 450mm as a minimum. thats putting your entire fist into the danger zone.
the very idea of spindle moulders makes me cringe.
Risk is a hard thing for some people to understand. I was taught to wear boots when cutting trees. In 60 years I’ve never had a felling axe incident, and only one incident when the chain saw kicked sideways. Thanks to the boots I still have all my toes.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Hi Jar, well it won’t come as any surprise for you to know what we all think of push blocks on this side of the pond, but you have so many accidents over there, – I found a link to an American site saying 10 amputations per day in the US. Would you perhaps try push sticks? There is a thread on here I started a couple of pages back entitled something like New push sticks I made. Once you get used to them they are very easy to use to control the wood being cut, one pushes it against the fence and the other pushes the wood through, And you don’t need to take your guard off to use them. Cheers Ian
I usually try to do thin rips on a bandsaw, but I do have a gripper push block for the tablesaw..lol
Most maybe all of the TS sleds people use here can't be used with a blade guard, and therefore are never used.
Safety is a interesting thing (here) we repealed helmet laws in some states (under the idea personal freedom)
MAN ratings are not a thing, and square heads are still available (sort of.)
Not trying to suggest any of that is a good thing, but it is what it is.
TheTiddles
Established Member
People should be allowed to risk their own lives, I’ve not a problem with that.
Perhaps they should be advised that what they are doing is risky, seems fair.
People shouldn’t be allowed to needlessly risk the lives of others. So a tiny bit of gravel could hit the head of a motorcyclist and cause them to plough into an oncoming car, pedestrians etc... seems a fair enough law to enforce.
However on a bicycle it’s much less dangerous, so making them wear helmets would be unreasonable.
This is the morality and values of Western Europe, others haven’t caught up yet.
Perhaps they should be advised that what they are doing is risky, seems fair.
People shouldn’t be allowed to needlessly risk the lives of others. So a tiny bit of gravel could hit the head of a motorcyclist and cause them to plough into an oncoming car, pedestrians etc... seems a fair enough law to enforce.
However on a bicycle it’s much less dangerous, so making them wear helmets would be unreasonable.
This is the morality and values of Western Europe, others haven’t caught up yet.
powertools
Established Member
Can't understand why through this entire thread that no body has mentioned that before anybody considers push sticks the main things to consider in table saw usage are as follows.
Make sure that the fence is parallel to the blade.
Use a short fence or a long fence with a short sub fence fitted to it.
Make sure that the blade is sharp and of a type suitable for the cut to be made.
After the above then comes the push stick or 2 if you like in my opinion the birds mouth type are not as safe as some like to think if you take into account that the danger comes from the rear of the blade lifting the wood of the table and that type of push stick does little to stop it and if nor placed correctly on the end of the wood can push the end of the cut into the rear of the blade causing the very issue that we should be trying to avoid.
Make sure that the fence is parallel to the blade.
Use a short fence or a long fence with a short sub fence fitted to it.
Make sure that the blade is sharp and of a type suitable for the cut to be made.
After the above then comes the push stick or 2 if you like in my opinion the birds mouth type are not as safe as some like to think if you take into account that the danger comes from the rear of the blade lifting the wood of the table and that type of push stick does little to stop it and if nor placed correctly on the end of the wood can push the end of the cut into the rear of the blade causing the very issue that we should be trying to avoid.
Interesting thread - thanks to all contributors it's been a good read
After attending woodworking shows for at least the last 25 years I've always been amazed at the amount of people who carried their lack of fingers as a badge of honour and insisted on telling me how they lost them whilst showing me their stumps..
Funny old world.
After attending woodworking shows for at least the last 25 years I've always been amazed at the amount of people who carried their lack of fingers as a badge of honour and insisted on telling me how they lost them whilst showing me their stumps..
Funny old world.
Cabinetman
Established Member
So what type of push stick are you advocating? And I’m afraid I don’t understand the last sentence pushing the end of the cut into the rear of the blade?
The short fence is in :
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/circular-saw.pdf
"To prevent kickback, the front of the fence must beno further than the base of the gullet at table level"
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
"A rip fence or a cross-cut fence should be used to give adequate workpiece support during cutting (see Figure 2(a)). To prevent kickback, the front of the fence must be set no further than the base of the saw blade gullet at table level"
Yes it hasn't been mentioned so far, I was going to and will add that I don't think I've ever seen a Youtube video of it.
I think the (misguided) reason for pushblocks/grippers is because without a riving knife, you need to push down quite hard on the workpiece as you move it forwards during the cut. If you just use pushsticks and push the workpiece forwards with no riving knife and with a long fence, there's more risk of kickback.
powertools
Established Member
Same as jar994 above.
If you use a thin push stick on lets say a 75mm board and you have the push stick close to the fence that will tend to push the far end of the cut into the rear of the blade.
In my list of things to do I should have also mentioned not to have the blade set to high for the thickness of the wood to be cut and that a riving knife should always be used regardless of the type of cut.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Well I would suggest you go back and read all of this thread and also my thread with regard to push sticks a little bit further down the list, 40 to 90,000 Americans every year have to have surgery on their hands and 10 a day lose a finger or hand to table saws, principally because they have to leave the guard off because they are using one of those push blocks which you are advocating. Your life your hands. I would just say that in 45 years of using a tablesaw – always with two push sticks I have never had an accident and I have never ever had a piece of wood thrown back at me . Ian
Edit. Check post Nr 39 on page 2, if you still want to continue using a push block – well I can’t imagine you will.
Edit. Check post Nr 39 on page 2, if you still want to continue using a push block – well I can’t imagine you will.
Last edited:
"A rip fence or a cross-cut fence should be used to give adequate workpiece support during cutting (see Figure 2(a)). To prevent kickback, the front of the fence must be set no further than the base of the saw blade gullet at table level"
Many small or cheap saw tables have fences that are the full length of the table, probably because the mounting on them is so cheapo it cant be a firm support when just mounted on the front. I think its best there to use that type of fence as a base to mount a more appropriate fence onto, maybe one shaped at the business end
Wearing a lid,while not a stringent law should be there as a matter of caution.
Many small or cheap saw tables have fences that are the full length of the table, probably because the mounting on them is so cheapo it cant be a firm support when just mounted on the front. I think its best there to use that type of fence as a base to mount a more appropriate fence onto, maybe one shaped at the business end
I suppose it does make a difference depending on the style you ride or where you ride, but potting along. On the main road its likely crush injuries from a motorist will cause the most damage. Offroad those is a different kettle of fish where offs are common, as are trees and large rocks, and going over the bars due to hills it's your head thats likely to contact the ground. There helmets arent just a requirement but a necessity.
Wearing a lid,while not a stringent law should be there as a matter of caution.
Last edited:
powertools
Established Member
The push stick like jar994 and I prefere is not a push block that goes over the blade but is a push stick that also holds the wood down and can be used with the blade guard in place.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Please check post number 39 on page 2 he is using one like you suggest, and how would you cut a piece of wood narrower than your hand? Using your type your hand has to pass between the blade and the fence it’s just so dangerous.
powertools
Established Member
I am happy to now step out of this thread and leave it to you and others to decide the best way to do things.
Cabinetman
Established Member
I appreciate that thank you very much. Ian
shed9
establiSHED member
Personally and certainly based on some of the responses to this thread I think the problem is ultimately down to attitude and mentality. Simply put, people cannot rationalise away the reality of accidents occurring by deciding they are not the sort of people to have them. There also seems to be some minor misconception that safety guards are more useful or applicable to some people more than others. The guard is there as one more tool to ensure the blade isn't exposed and to potentially increase safety, it's not there just for careless people or idiots. Removing it if you don't have to or not exchanging it for other forms of safety equipment if you do is not conducive to safe working.
Regardless of all the comments and whatever side of the argument people sit, I think it's fair to assume that no one supports the concept of unsafe working and it's unlikely people will naturally change their relative working habits anyhow. The main issue really for me is what new table saw users take away from all this.
