Just to stir the pot, has anyone noticed...

[Phil Pascoe]

Really? Where are these marvellous institutions?

In many other Countries.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have suggested to my relatives, that seeing as the NHS has morphed from a national to an international service we should seriously consider charging other countries an International Insurance Stamp to help pay for the extra demand being heaped on it.

From what I've read there is apparently a plane leaving Nigeria every Wednesday specifically for health tourism.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The Kings Fund has produced a recent comparison of healthcare in the UK vs ~18 other developed nations Report. In summary:

• the UK does some things better than most - eg: controlling admin and drug costs.
• it is under-resourced in some areas - doctors and nurses, scanning equipment and beds
• quality and effectiveness (outcomes) - it does some things better and some worse - it is middle of the pack overall.

I doubt that an analysis done 10, 20 or 30 years ago would have reached materially different conclusions. There is clearly room for improvement - some could benefit from more money, some could be achieved through better organisation and responsiveness to change.

The debate over privatisation is futile - the real issue is the commitment to the delivery of health care to all free at the point of use. The guiding delivery principle should be that which delivers the best overall outcomes, not a dogma ridden debate over private or public.

PFI was initiated at a very low level by the Tories in ~1993. Labour 1997-2010 signed up 80%+ of all PFI deals. It is borrowing to fund current expenditure. Repayment runs through to 2050.

 

[mark w]

View attachment 174218

It did not peak under them.

It did.

 

[mark w]

View attachment 174218

It did not peak under them.

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

 

[Jacob]

"What we’re missing is politicians who believe change for the better is possible"

Even worse; what's also missing is an electorate who believe change for the better is possible - as you can see from the negativity and pessimism which pervades threads like this, like bleating lambs to the slaughter!
I blame the miserable mainstream media, but yes, the lack of politicians who dare to make a case for change i.e. the complete absence of intelligent and articulate opposition.
Abandon hope all ye who enter here!

 

[StephenArfer]

It's a rather odd quirk of the medical system that, until you get a consultant position, you are classed as a junior doctor. I don't know if it works like that in other countries, but it's quite normal here to be "junior" for a long time. Incidentally, you can't be a junior forever; if you fail to get a consultant position within a certain period of time then you end up in a sort of "zombie limbo" position as a doctor.

I don't know if any juniors are claiming that they personally have suffered 13 years of pay erosion; I thought the point was that the role has suffered that erosion for a long time.

Whilst I wouldn't credit our governments over the last decade to have had the smarts to specifically plan this: repeatedly not matching pay rises to inflation is quite clever - in that, at some point years down the line when staff start to complain that they've suffered some huge percentage drop it looks as though they're being entirely unreasonable in asking for such a large percentage increase. Of course, it's simply the compound effect of many years of what would have been reasonable increases (that weren't given).

Thanks for the full explanation - I understand it now and I have more sympathy for their cause.

 

[Jacob]

Anybody watching tonights Panorama?
It's about the deliberate tory government policy to run down state education by allowing buildings to collapse.
They blame RAACS but the problem is lack of government spending in the face of known and worsening problems.
The problem gets amplified as the less they do now the more someone has to spend later.
This is the same story as affecting the whole of the public sector.
It keeps taxes low and the rich richer. This is their agenda and always has been. Nothing else. Simple minded stuff.

 

[Jester129]

And when were these built again, and who was in power please?

 

[Jacob]

And when were these built again, and who was in power please?

That is not the point.
RAAC was known to have short life of 30 years or so. It stopped being used in 1996 following a BRE report. That is 28 years ago.
There have been many surveys/warnings/comments ignored subsequently.
It's the failure to maintain/replace which has now caught up with us - a very expensive mistake and a disaster for school children directly affected.
But what would you expect from a government obsessed with keeping public spending down and treating low taxation as some sort of magic remedy for all ills.

 

[JimJay]

Thanks for the full explanation - I understand it now and I have more sympathy for their cause.

How about the poor old pensioners - they get derisory rises, when the government has a groat or two left in the Treasury to throw them, but never seem to get anywhere near a living income. Sympathy is all well and good but fine words butter no parsnips....

 

[stuart little]

I'm 79 this year, and I have had quite a few experiences of the NHS, and the care and attention of NHS staff over the years. The NHS is the only reason I made it to my ripe old age. Nursing staff generally do a fantastic job under continuous pressure and I feel great respect and sympathy for them.

Why is the nursing profession in the NHS so short of staff? I personally believe that nursing training at colleges in the UK should be totally funded by the exchequer, so that those that see it as a calling do not have the prospect of living in poverty and debt for several years, and then paid a salary and status which does not reflect their their training and dedication.

I also appreciate the expertise of medical staff, but can anyone tell me how it works that a NHS consultant surgeon can spend a significant proportion of his time at a private hospital whilst building a huge NHS waiting list? If they spend say, three days aggregate at a private hospital, do they also get paid a salary by the NHS?

I'm a bit intolerant of junior doctors who claim 13 years of salary erosion. How many have been qualified for 13 years? If they are still a junior after that time, perhaps there's a good reason?

Since WW2 the population of the UK seems to have grown out of all proportion to the birth rate and there are now many more of us old people than there were post-war. If you made it to retirement back then you were doing well!. The NHS has become hugely more capable during the intervening years. Technology has resulted in advances in medical and surgical expertise and practices which have saved lives which would otherwise be lost.

Can we solve the problem it by "stopping the boats", or similar political sound bytes that we hear continuously from the government. If only it were that easy.

Fortunately I can still return to the "good old days" once I'm playing in my little workshop, or out in our countryside with my camera. Not too far from my car though nowadays!

Lack of old people post WW2 was in large due to so many "Who shall Never Grow Old", losing their lives in WW1. So I believe. Most of us 'old fogies', me being one @79 this year, are 'war babies', or just after.

 

[sploo]

How about the poor old pensioners - they get derisory rises, when the government has a groat or two left in the Treasury to throw them, but never seem to get anywhere near a living income. Sympathy is all well and good but fine words butter no parsnips....

Don't worry, the Tories hate you all equally - old, young, pensioners etc

 

[budgie98]

How about the poor old pensioners - they get derisory rises, when the government has a groat or two left in the Treasury to throw them, but never seem to get anywhere near a living income. Sympathy is all well and good but fine words butter no parsnips....

Yes. and the 25 pence increase I received when I was 80 doesn't buy enough butter to cover even a scraggy parsnip! (Not that I would ever again try to eat one; I think that they are the most foul-tasting food that I've ever tried!).

 

[mc281]

That is not the point.
RAAC was known to have short life of 30 years or so. It stopped being used in 1996 following a BRE report. That is 28 years ago.
There have been many surveys/warnings/comments ignored subsequently.
It's the failure to maintain/replace which has now caught up with us - a very expensive mistake and a disaster for school children directly affected.
But what would you expect from a government obsessed with keeping public spending down and treating low taxation as some sort of magic remedy for all ills.

It's far too easy to blame any political party of your choice. Unfortunately when nobody wants to pay for anything it causes problems of reliable supply of service. IN ANY SITUATION YOU CAN MENTION.
I think we've finally got the pips to squeek!

 

[Jester129]

Also don't forget the tax threshold for the low paid hasn't been increased, many of these folk and pensioners are suddenly paying income tax! Thankyou Mr Hunt so very much. Is it not fixed until something like 2026/7??? Disgraceful!

 

[Jacob]

Also don't forget the tax threshold for the low paid hasn't been increased, many of these folk and pensioners are suddenly paying income tax! Thankyou Mr Hunt so very much. Is it not fixed until something like 2026/7??? Disgraceful!

The whole burden of taxation has been steadily shifted downwards since 1979, poll tax, VAT, et al. Top rates of tax are now historically low. The result has been massive shift of wealth upwards, which is the whole idea, and massive deterioration on public services, which is just the inevitable "collateral damage".

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Since 1999 the percentage the top 1% of earners pay in income tax has risen in an almost consistent trend, across Labour, Coalition, and Conservative Governments.

Institute for Fiscal Studies.

 

[selectortone]

The Guardian: Eye-watering taxes.

"This parliament will see the sharpest rise in taxation as a proportion of GDP since official data on tax revenues began, the result being that taxation is now at its highest sustained level (37% of GDP) on record."

 

[Jacob]

The Guardian: Eye-watering taxes.

"This parliament will see the sharpest rise in taxation as a proportion of GDP since official data on tax revenues began, the result being that taxation is now at its highest sustained level (37% of GDP) on record."

That's good to hear.
Not high enough of course and the distribution still benefits the very wealthy ever more.
Taxation is the price of civilisation.
Those who argue against taxation would take us back to the dark ages.
Notice any potholes in your roads locally? Or waiting lists at hospitals? Or cut-backs in school facilities? Or collapsing school buildings.......etc .....etc