Just to stir the pot, has anyone noticed...

[John Brown]

I can't hear about The Mail Online without thinking of Lee Healey's excellent "The Male Online"

View attachment 174039

Is their a mole in this forum?

 

[John Brown]

The trouble with with Left wing and Right wing views is that they represent diametrically opposed stances. though in a sense they are just two sides of the same coin Any government in power has to deal with events as they happen, so irrespective of their political stripe they have to adopt measures that are pragmatic. There has to be a reasoned debate taking into account all views and coming up with a workable solution. That either camp has " All of the answers, to all of the questions, that are plaguing our society", isn't remotely believable. And treating those with opposing views as the New Satan, is frankly, childish.

I agree totally. Binary politics is simplistic and a giant waste of time and resources.

 

[Jacob]

The trouble with with Left wing and Right wing views is that they represent diametrically opposed stances. though in a sense they are just two sides of the same coin Any government in power has to deal with events as they happen, so irrespective of their political stripe they have to adopt measures that are pragmatic. There has to be a reasoned debate taking into account all views and coming up with a workable solution. That either camp has " All of the answers, to all of the questions, that are plaguing our society", isn't remotely believable. And treating those with opposing views as the New Satan, is frankly, childish.

It is fairly binary, to be realistic.
The basic difference seems to be between "conservative" spending as little as possible on public services and keeping taxes down, and "socialist" spending as much as possible on public spending and high quality of life for all, keeping taxes as high as necessary.
You can see (hear and feel!) conservative policies at work as you drive around and dodge potholes. The whole of the public services is riddled with similar!
The fly in the ointment is the delusion that public services can be run more efficiently (cheaply) by private business. This is not true, never was, never could be.

 

[mudman]

Lets hope so, the state our country is in at the moment after right wing rule it can't happen quick enough.

There is no way you can call the current government right wing.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's not going to lose the next election because it's right wing, it's going to lose it because it's not.

 

[Max Power]

It is fairly binary, to be realistic.
The basic difference seems to be between "conservative" spending as little as possible on public services and keeping taxes down, and "socialist" spending as much as possible on public spending and high quality of life for all, keeping taxes as high as necessary.

You do realise public debt is the higher than at any time since the war? Hardly the mark of a right wing government

 

[selectortone]

It's not going to lose the next election because it's right wing, it's going to lose it because it's not.

Going by most people I talk to (in blue-rinse, Tory heartland Bournemouth of all places!), if they lose it will be because they're corrupt and self enriching (viz: Michelle Mone et al) and breath-takingly incompetent (viz just about everything they try to enact).

 

[Jacob]

You do realise public debt is the higher than at any time since the war? Hardly the mark of a right wing government

Tax rates are lower than at any time since the war. That's the single main indicator. Right wing policies are about keeping the rich rich. Nothing else.
Then we have de-regulation, Brexit and intense anti immigrant policies...etc ....etc

"1970s - 83%
It was then slightly reduced and was around 90% through the 1950s and 60s. In 1971 the top rate of income tax on earned income was cut to 75%. A surcharge of 15% kept the top rate on investment income at 90%. In 1974 the cut was partly reversed and the top rate on earned income was raised to 83%."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...en slightly reduced,income was raised to 83%.

 

[selectortone]

Tax rates are lower than at any time since the war

Then why do I keep reading that tax rates are the highest since the war?

Here's just one article:

Institute of Financial Studies: Tax revenues highest since WWII

"This has been the biggest tax-raising parliament since records began, pushing UK tax revenues to historically high levels."

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Going by most people I talk to (in blue-rinse, Tory heartland Bournemouth of all places!), if they lose it will be because they're corrupt and self enriching (viz: Michelle Mone et al) and breath-takingly incompetent (viz just about everything they try to enact).

and that.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One for Jacob.

 

[niall Y]

It is fairly binary, to be realistic.
The basic difference seems to be between "conservative" spending as little as possible on public services and keeping taxes down, and "socialist" spending as much as possible on public spending and high quality of life for all, keeping taxes as high as necessary.
You can see (hear and feel!) conservative policies at work as you drive around and dodge potholes. The whole of the public services is riddled with similar!
The fly in the ointment is the delusion that public services can be run more efficiently (cheaply) by private business. This is not true, never was, never could be.

I believe that it is only as binary as you want it to be. Policies have to be realistic, otherwise they will not work in the real world. Liss Truss, proved this point with her economic policies. And I have no doubt that Corbyn's economic policies would have elicited a similar response in the markets.
As for potholes, we have them in Wales too, despite a Labour government. No doubt you will say that this down to funding from Westminster. but the whole of Europe and America seems to be in a similar bind regarding public finances. Perhaps," It's
the economy, Stupid " after all, rather than which party is in charge.

 

[Jacob]

Then why do I keep reading that tax rates are the highest since the war?

Because you are reading bare data with no critique attached and you are told to believe that we have a problem.
In fact wealth distribution during the same period has swung massively upwards to greater levels of inequality, so the scope (and urgent necessity) for redistributive taxation is higher than it has been for generations.
Not to mention the fact that in a modern wealthy society we expect more from public services, not less, which is what we have had under the excuse of "austerity", which has always meant austerity for the poor, not the rich.

Here's just one article:

Institute of Financial Studies: Tax revenues highest since WWII

"This has been the biggest tax-raising parliament since records began, pushing UK tax revenues to historically high levels."

The higher the better, and a long way yet to go for a civilised society.
It's pathetic that so-called lefties believe the nonsense about not being able to afford a proper NHS for example.

 

[selectortone]

No, you're the one looking at raw data. You haven't taken into account Personal Allowance which has barely risen since 2016 and is pegged until 2026. This stealth tax increase is hitting the people who can least afford it, the low paid, the hardest. We are all paying more VAT because of inflation. VED has gone up, council tax has gone up, etc., etc. The least able are paying more tax than ever.

UK Tax: Personal Allowance History

2016–17	11,000[12]	-	-
2017–18	11,500[13]	-	-
2018–19	11,850[14]	-	-
2019–21	12,500[15][16]	-	-
2021–26	12,570[17]	-	-

 

[Jacob]

2016–17	11,000[12]	-	-
2017–18	11,500[13]	-	-
2018–19	11,850[14]	-	-
2019–21	12,500[15][16]	-	-
2021–26	12,570[17]	-	-

How do you interpret those figures?

 

[selectortone]

See above.

 

[mark w]

There is no way you can call the current government right wing.

I can because it is.

 

[mark w]

Nothing. I just think they're wrong.

Just look around, there is not one aspect of our society which is not failing, after 14 years of Tory rule, this is right is it? Is this how our country should be?
I really don't see how the left wing can be any worse, we are at rock bottom.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You really don't see how the left wing can be any worse? You've obviously forgotten Bliar.

 

[Mikebart]

You really don't see how the left wing can be any worse? You've obviously forgotten Bliar.

Not fair he was new labour which is/was a poor conservative party