billw
The Tattooed One
Can someone point me towards a good plane type and brand to buy to test them out? Workshop Heaven suggest getting a rebate plane to try.
Japanese planes
- Thread starter billw
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
pulling a rebate plane if you're used to pushing planes is kind of a waste.
If you were in the US, I'd just sell you a good used 70mm smoother for $100. They don't sell for the same prices in japan that they do here unless you get stylish current makers (and most of them sell at top price to europe and US). A very good professional quality full sized smoother with something like white steel and wrought iron backing with a dai is about $100 on japan's version of ebay. Roughly equivalent to a new $500 plane.
I would suggest you get a smoother, though. If you have links to anything, feel free to post them. I have a fair amount of experience with japanese tools and an objective opinion of them (not a fanatic, rather practical use and practical experience. I went mostly away from the planes once I started building my own).
If you were in the US, I'd just sell you a good used 70mm smoother for $100. They don't sell for the same prices in japan that they do here unless you get stylish current makers (and most of them sell at top price to europe and US). A very good professional quality full sized smoother with something like white steel and wrought iron backing with a dai is about $100 on japan's version of ebay. Roughly equivalent to a new $500 plane.
I would suggest you get a smoother, though. If you have links to anything, feel free to post them. I have a fair amount of experience with japanese tools and an objective opinion of them (not a fanatic, rather practical use and practical experience. I went mostly away from the planes once I started building my own).
billw
The Tattooed One
@D_W i don't have much in the way of examples which is why I asked here really, there's a few videos about planes on YT but I felt a bit lost. The whole concept of pulling rather than pushing seems, for whatever reason, to resonate with my mental logic a lot more so I wanted to see if it was true in real life. I'm sure the same would be true for Japanese saws.
If only I could speak Japanese and use their eBay!
If only I could speak Japanese and use their eBay!
The best use I found for japanese planes (their setup and aspects may have some use in planing very perfect soft woods, but technically other than that, they will be more demanding in sharpening and less reliable in avoiding chipping - the limit on clearance vs. critical angles to really get good edge strength in a variety of woods just isn't there - they were designed for super clear softwoods where there's a reward)....
....anyway, where i found them useful was when I first started dimensioning. I couldn't last long jack planing, but I could last a long time pushing a jack plane until I was tired and then pulling a jack japanese plane, same with the next step, etc.
Eventually, I learned to plane without getting tired, and also learned to plane left handed as well and that was the end of that with japanese planes. keeping the irons nick free and then repairing said damage with traditional sharpening methods is a pain.
On the bright side most of the inexpensive planes are very good. I wouldn't faff with getting a little one (in case someone suggests you get a 42mm plane or some such thing - they're fairly useless). If you have normal man hands, 65 or 70 degrees will suit you well. You just need something with a white oak dai, a laminated iron and a chipbreaker. hitachi provides white 2 and blue 2 and blue 1 in pre-laminated material so a good quality iron can be made just by cutting an iron out in the right shape (and many of the more expensive planes still do just that - their comments about someone sitting over a fire in the dark can be ignored if the lamination line is perfectly straight looking).
....anyway, where i found them useful was when I first started dimensioning. I couldn't last long jack planing, but I could last a long time pushing a jack plane until I was tired and then pulling a jack japanese plane, same with the next step, etc.
Eventually, I learned to plane without getting tired, and also learned to plane left handed as well and that was the end of that with japanese planes. keeping the irons nick free and then repairing said damage with traditional sharpening methods is a pain.
On the bright side most of the inexpensive planes are very good. I wouldn't faff with getting a little one (in case someone suggests you get a 42mm plane or some such thing - they're fairly useless). If you have normal man hands, 65 or 70 degrees will suit you well. You just need something with a white oak dai, a laminated iron and a chipbreaker. hitachi provides white 2 and blue 2 and blue 1 in pre-laminated material so a good quality iron can be made just by cutting an iron out in the right shape (and many of the more expensive planes still do just that - their comments about someone sitting over a fire in the dark can be ignored if the lamination line is perfectly straight looking).
I'd say even a cheap apprentice grade plane will be good enough to give you a feel for what they are like. I'd try a £50 smoother.
thetyreman
Established Member
you should be able to get hold of an old plane that's wood and patch in an insert at the mouth to tighten it for not much money, it'll give the same performance but cuts on the push not pull.
thetyreman
Established Member
The bed angle on the japanese plane will generally be about 8 degrees lower and the iron will be several clicks harder. The surface created by a japanese plane on softwoods or medium hardwoods is at a brightness that probably nothing else matches (which I guess is the jones for everyone). It also complicates the level of perfection needed, though - a surface as bright means even the smallest defects or lines will stand out.
(i also prefer the western plane, though - as much potential as there is for the above, I rarely have the perfect softwoods, or the project for them, to make use of any such potential).
thetyreman
Established Member
Yes, and I don't think people talk enough about geometry and specs like that instead of brand names "white steel, blue steel, ...." whatever it may be. The planes could rightly be made from 62/63 hardness ward cast steel and work the same way if needed. My point with this is that we hear about how good the surface is (I spent money and time chasing that earlier on). We don't have the wood that those planes are typically used on, though, dead clear spruce, etc, various cedars. They can be used on hardwoods, but if they are set up with irons beveled at 28 degrees and no cap iron, they will be a bear to deal with on hardwoods (chipping, tearout, etc).
If the setup spec isn't being used for the purpose like it's used in japan, though - it becomes a huge wasted effort. 7 or 8 minutes of time to remove a minor chip out of an iron by hand vs. 2 minutes to a fresh nick free sharp edge on a western plane, etc.
