I've Seen It All Now.

[Argus]

Today an Edward Preston 1399P router sold for £92.

Not much unusual in that, perhaps, but the lucky bidder just spent 92 quid on a router without a blade.

Crackers, if you ask me.

 

[iNewbie]

Ebay never fails to surprise me with what people pay - more than new on some secondhand items they haven't price checked. But thats people for you in a I must have it, mood.

 

[AndyT]

Paul Sellers has a lot to answer for - by which I mean that he is successfully persuading people to take up hand tool woodworking!

But I do agree that's a bit steep and definitely more than I would pay.

 

[niagra]

I've been after a Record 071 router plane for a while and on ebay they have steadily increased in price up to around £90! Luckily, I happened across an item titled "vintage planes" and got a 071 and 044 for £38 inc postage. I'm happy, as it's complete!

 

[AndyT]

Actually I wonder if some of these little spirals of rising prices are caused by amateur dealers buying tools on ebay and then selling them to other amateur dealers who think they can sell again at a profit?

If so, someone must end up making a loss when sensible, pragmatic woodworkers decide that prices have gone too far and substitute a more sanely priced alternative.

Also, did you see this other Preston router, which did have a cutter?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151732282624&alt=web

It sold for £246 + £4.50 p&p!

 

[Argus]

I agree with Andy T.

But, on the plus side and underneath all the fluff, Paul Sellers does have some sound ideas for getting to the basics.

However, It seems that Sellers has influenced prices, whether intentionally or not..... though I don't see him using much Preston gear. He was waxing lyrical about his effects on No: 4 plane prices the other day,
http://paulsellers.com/2015/07/stanley- ... e-to-rise/ ...........so, watch the prices go.

As Niagra said, ordinary Record / Stanley routers are increasing in cost, and Sellers does use those on some of his you-tube stuff.

His Blog is an eye-opener.....when he was not blowing on about "artisal, fulfilling, amateurism" (whatever that is),

 

[RogerP]

It also happens in other fields. A certain USSR made camera lens was worth almost nothing until someone wrote an article on how good they were when used, with an adapter, on modern digital SLRs. Not only did the the lens jump in price but also the adapters suddenly become scarce and then they shot up in price.

 

[DTR]

His Blog is an eye-opener.....when he was not blowing on about "artisal, fulfilling, amateurism" (whatever that is),

I can't watch Paul Sellers anymore. He's obviously a very talented craftsman and I agree with some of his standpoints, but his holier-than-thou attitude gets right up my nose.

 

[bugbear]

His Blog is an eye-opener.....when he was not blowing on about "artisal, fulfilling, amateurism" (whatever that is),

I can't watch Paul Sellers anymore. He's obviously a very talented craftsman and I agree with some of his standpoints, but his holier-than-thou attitude gets right up my nose.

Agreed - ironically, he's more "Guru" in his attitude than the other gurus he rails against.

His techniques and skills are, in the main, pretty uncontroversial.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The 'Sellers effect' may be encouraging more North American buyers to dip a toe in the UK marketplace. Sellers does keep mentioning how easy it is to buy vintage tools from UK internet auction site(s), though he has recently almost boasted about how prices have risen since he's been recommending certain tools.

Sellers is in danger of becoming a bit of a parody of himself, if he's not careful. There's still valuable information in his blogs and videos, but it's increasingly diluted with self-congratulatory drivel. As with many woodworking 'gurus', he seems to have collected a small cabal of sychophantic commenters, the effect of which seems to have rather inflated his ego. I've noticed that the occasional comment expressing a different point of view can be treated rather arrogantly, which is a shame.

I think he's still worth listening to for the gems of technique, but you do have to mentally edit out the puffery.

 

[John Brown]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

 

[bugbear]

Today an Edward Preston 1399P router sold for £92.

Not much unusual in that, perhaps, but the lucky bidder just spent 92 quid on a router without a blade.

Crackers, if you ask me.

A few years back I walked away from the Tyzack version of that (with all parts, for a tenner)
because it wasn't the Preston original.

It turns out the Tyzack is rarer :-(

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

The 'Sellers effect' may be encouraging more North American buyers to dip a toe in the UK marketplace. Sellers does keep mentioning how easy it is to buy vintage tools from UK internet auction site(s), though he has recently almost boasted about how prices have risen since he's been recommending certain tools.

Sellers is in danger of becoming a bit of a parody of himself, if he's not careful. There's still valuable information in his blogs and videos, but it's increasingly diluted with self-congratulatory drivel. As with many woodworking 'gurus', he seems to have collected a small cabal of sychophantic commenters, the effect of which seems to have rather inflated his ego. I've noticed that the occasional comment expressing a different point of view can be treated rather arrogantly, which is a shame.

I think he's still worth listening to for the gems of technique, but you do have to mentally edit out the puffery.

Well the celebrity woodworkers have to say something. If they stop, their celebrity is no more. They have to pad it out with drivel, if only to make it seem as though they are saying something important. They all do it, recycle information that is decades old.
If you think about it Sellers has promoted quite a few tools - the old Stanley/Records, the Marples transitional, the traditional wooden plane. Folk were saying that there's not a lot wrong with these plane types long ago, even in the face of the introduction of the higher end. They just weren't celebrity enough for many others to take notice.
There's very little left to promote. The higher end has been done to death by all the other celebrity woodworkers.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The 'Sellers effect' may be encouraging more North American buyers to dip a toe in the UK marketplace. Sellers does keep mentioning how easy it is to buy vintage tools from UK internet auction site(s), though he has recently almost boasted about how prices have risen since he's been recommending certain tools.

Sellers is in danger of becoming a bit of a parody of himself, if he's not careful. There's still valuable information in his blogs and videos, but it's increasingly diluted with self-congratulatory drivel. As with many woodworking 'gurus', he seems to have collected a small cabal of sychophantic commenters, the effect of which seems to have rather inflated his ego. I've noticed that the occasional comment expressing a different point of view can be treated rather arrogantly, which is a shame.

I think he's still worth listening to for the gems of technique, but you do have to mentally edit out the puffery.

Well the celebrity woodworkers have to say something. If they stop, their celebrity is no more. They have to pad it out with drivel, if only to make it seem as though they are saying something important. They all do it, recycle information that is decades old.
If you think about it Sellers has promoted quite a few tools - the old Stanley/Records, the Marples transitional, the traditional wooden plane. Folk were saying that there's not a lot wrong with these plane types long ago, even in the face of the introduction of the higher end. They just weren't celebrity enough for many others to take notice.
There's very little left to promote. The higher end has been done to death by all the other celebrity woodworkers.

That wasn't quite what I was getting at.

I don't think there's any problem with Sellers showing how Bailey-type planes, Marples transitionals and older woodies can do good work - that stuff's positive information. After all, what may be 'recycled and decades old' to the experienced woodworker may be valuable and new to someone just coming to the craft. That's just straightforward teaching - the passing on of things learned from one generation to the next that's being happening for centuries.

Sellers' problem is that there's maybe a bit too much 'padding', and the tone of some of it.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I would imagine that few if any of the internet gurus have had formal training in giving presentations and so, being "undisciplined" they can indulge their evangelical instincts, go off topic, become unfocussed etc. The shining exception to this IMO is Peter Parfitt whose presentations are models of excellence but then again I believe he has a military background and so would have been trained according to the ABC maxim (Accuracy, Brevity, Clarity). The opposite example of a man who has a lot of sensible things to say but whose videos need tightening up a bit would be The Renaissance Woodworker. He's a fairly natural communicator with a pleasant manner who is not given to waffling but he does tend to take twice as long as he needs. Sadly there are also many internet presenters whose vids are just shambolic which is a shame because they often have some useful ideas to impart.

 

[AndyT]

Some sensible stuff in this thread I think.

I find Sellers very watchable and reasonable when he's doing a full length video of something he knows well. Doing that, he looks like someone with years of experience of explaining stuff to a class of students. Reminiscent of my old school woodwork teacher. Sometimes a bit dogmatic but I can accept that often an instructor needs to cut through the confusion of options and teach students a reliable method before any treatment of other techniques.

But his written blog posts are often unreadable. They could possibly be rescued by a good editor but that doesn't happen. Presumably their importance is in driving traffic to his YT channel. Fair enough; it does mean that he has been able to publish lots of good videos at no charge to us.

 

[Racers]

Mmmm can't say I agree with you he comes over as a bit sneery to me, and his spoon making where he nearly chops it in half with an errant axe blow is far below the quality of Ben Orfords one, in both presentation and quality of spoon, its like he is doing it for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2DN46lrqk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjK2yKZEPZQ

Pete

 

[AndyT]

Fair point Pete. I'd not watched either of those videos before but do agree that Ben Orford looks far more at ease with what he is doing, and gives a much more informative description of it.
Sellers' more recent, bench-based videos are better than that rather embarrassing example.

 

[John15]

As a relative newcomer to woodworking I find Paul Sellers' videos very interesting and informative, but I can understand that there are moments that may not be to the liking of some of the more experienced woodworkers.

John

 

[GLFaria]

Some sensible stuff in this thread I think.
...
But his written blog posts are often unreadable. They could possibly be rescued by a good editor but that doesn't happen. Presumably their importance is in driving traffic to his YT channel. Fair enough; it does mean that he has been able to publish lots of good videos at no charge to us.

I fully agree. Much as I respect Sellers for his knowledge and his know-how, I sometimes just give his posts a fast reading to find they are of no interest - just unreadable rambling. Sadly, this seems to be happening more and more often.
I'm not near to unsubscribe, though, there's too much to learn through him.