It never happens in Europe!

[ey_tony]

I used to visit Russian friends regularly when they lived in the South Urals/Siberia region of Russia about 20 years ago.
The first time I arrived in Moscow in winter it was snowing and a few inches deep but when I got on the second flight to the provincial airport in the Urals and it landed, there was over a foot of snow or more on the edge of the runway where we disembarked. We had to plod through it to get to the terminal building.

While out there the temperature never got warmer than about minus 12 C and dropped to about-15 to -22 in the evenings though I was reliably informed by the local elders that it often dropped to -30 most winters so I was the lucky one.
The most striking thing I noticed was that transport wasn't affected and everything just ran as usual with no one complaining...they just got on with it.

 

[rafezetter]

@Agent-zed: You wrote, QUOTE: Sure people could drive more sensibly but thats about all you can do. Unless you live in the highlands or a few other places there is no reason to have winter tyres for the few days a year it may or may not snow. UNQUOTE :

Entirely disagree, and you obviously have NOT tried winter tyres! The clue is in the name, your driving will be easier and safer when you drive in winter with winter tyres fitted. They are NOT "just" for snow!

Suggest you read the rest of this thread, then the thread linked to above. Even better, try a car fitted with winter tyres on typical winter roads where you live (I see it's in the south west - Devon, Cornwall, etc, etc).

I repeat, your QUOTE: ...... there is no reason to have winter tyres for the few days a year it may or may not snow. UNQUOTE: is just completely and utterly wrong.

I have to agree with AES - years ago my father, who is now 78, decided to get winter tyres for his car for some reason or other and was amazed at the difference in driving even in and around SURREY which is not known for it's snowy winters. His wife thought it was a waste of money too, until he got her car tyres swapped out for winter tyres without telling her during a service. Apparently she was raving about how much better the car felt and maybe it had a problem she wasn't aware of - my father told her he'd had winter tyres put on and properly pressurised.

Now they both have it done every year, even though they drive a lot less now.

It's not particularly cheap for their cars and I don't think they store the summer tyres either so it's new tyres every 6 months at around 500-600 each car - but the other choice is just ONE accident from black ice or aquaplaning in storm water.

 

[rafezetter]

The UK would actually be much better advised to spend more resource on flood defences (both coastal and riverine) than more snow clearing equipment. Flooding is a far greater threat than snow from an economic perspective.

i have lived in my property for 24 years and snow is a rarity here, the majority of those years absolutely zero snow, never ever been ‘snowed in’ and only once (for one day) when my car could not traverse the hill to get out of our neighbourhood.

maybe - or just go back to dredging the rivers and channels like they used to - lots of england is built on a flood plain, but infrastructure has been left to go to pot.

I read about that flood in scotland where the people in a smallish town were saying the flood defences had done nothing to stop it - at a cost of 600M = more than it would have cost to just build elsewhere.

How many houses could you build to relocate people, even nice ones for 600 million?

 

[XTiffy]

As a sixteen year old in 1963, I cycled about five miles to work in S.London. With heavy snow my boss sent me home early at 4pm as it would take a long time to get home. I got home almost the same as usual! I cycled after lorries in their tyre tracks and the only dodgy bit was changing direction. Next time I really remember deep snow was 1967, when I had to walk several miles following a snow plough to get back,in Hampshire (England).
Then a real winter couple of months early in 1977 in Nashua New Hampshire (USA) when the TV showed snow in Florida!
The fact is that Great Britains (the Islands) are largely to the North of the USA, yet we almost never get their winters. We are within the Gulf stream and that mostly detemines our weather. We are at the moment (globally) at a solar maximum, which disrups radio waves, which is roughly an eleven year cycle and I have no idea whether that affects the weather!

 

[dzj]

The last big snowfall we had was about 6-7 years ago. About 50 cm in a day and a half. That year the Danube froze over.
All traffic came to a standstill, and apart from the usual companies tasked with snow sweeping duties, the army was also called in,
and farmers and building companies to help clean the roads.
All cars have to have winter tyres and snow chains if you're heading out of town. I must admit I've never fitted snow chains, but how hard can it be?
This year the winter is so bad, our lilac tree bloomed in December and today I picked fresh mint from the garden.

 

[RogerS]

AND the fact that the temps in Sweden have reached record LOW levels, even for Sweden;

AND the fact that "the ordinary man in the street" doesn't even appear to know that there are such things as winter tyres - NO I'm NOT talking about tyres with studs on, or snow chains - just "ordinary" winter tyres.

IME, generally countries in Europe DO have "a necessary amount" of snow kit available, it's just that when a much heavier than normal snow fall occurs, especially if it happens over a short time frame, then whatever the amount of kit available, it becomes overwhelmed - for a short time only (usually within 12 to 24 hours or less). In contrast, it really does take only ONE centimetre of snow to bring UK traffic (and schools, public offices, etc, etc) to a grinding halt - often (also IME) for at least several days at a time!

Again IME, having winter tyres makes a HUGE different to normal daily winter life (NO that doesn't mean "just" snow, but v high winds, v wet roads, and various levels of icing, all of which DO occur as frequently in UK as in many other European countries).

In UK where, as said, winter tyres are virtually unknown. I remember a few years ago when there was a heavy snow fall in UK, the then Minister of Transport (can't remember which Govt) said winter tyres are unneccessary in UK, and/or damage the roads. A clear case either of real ignorance or deliberate obfuscation.

If anyone's interested, this subject has cropped up on the Forum a few years back (prompted, I think, by the above silly Minister of Transport statement). The thread is 3 pages long and my tuppence worth appears somewhere on P3.

Cheers

Edit for a P.S: Sorry, I forgot the link to the above thread (which was in 2019 I note). Here's the link now:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/michelin-crossclimate-tyres.115864/page-3#post-1267094

Yup..those Cross-Climate tyres were brilliant. Sold the car though and looked at the price to put new Cross Climates on our replacement....gulp...odd wheel size...no availability and even if there was £800. And since the tyres on the car when we bought it had only done 4000 miles, it's a no-brainer. Stay at home.

PS Check you're not flying on a 737 in the near future

 

[RogerS]

....He replied that if someone slipped and hurt themselves he would be held liable. I did mention to him that if I clear all the snow and ice no one will slip and hurt themselves. He insisted I stop. I did as he wished and thought about the hospital ward full of idiots like him that had slipped on ice. I forgot to mention he was wearing leather soled shoes (a killer on ice) I'm glad i'm out it with that kind of mentality about !
Cheers
Andrew

Tell him it's an urban myth.

 

[Scruples]

You are too young to remember 1947 then - - - - it snowed in JUNE! and had been doing so since December '46

It snowed in June in the 70s too.

 

[niemeyjt]

A key difference is they measure snow in meters in Sweden and millimetres in the U.K.

That's not fair - they are predicting a whole 5cm this week to bring the next wave of chaos.

But having driven back in the last batch of snow here - trust me, the UK is not alone. Here in Lausanne we have some idiotic anti-car planners. One of their tricks to slow the traffic is to use the buses as mobile traffic calming - narrowing the road at bus stops for example so nothing can pass. Guess what happens when the snow immobilises a bus at a bus stop! A council created traffic jam. Remember, there is no situation a politician cannot make worse.

 

[niemeyjt]

Unfortunately the situation in the UK isn't as simple as people are told/like to think. Governments have spent decades laying the country open to shortages of food, energy, fuel etc with their short-term and short-sighted policies. Almost every aspect of life is subject to lack of security due to the laissez faire attitude of the rich/powerful when it comes to the rest of us. Ukraine has shown us that war in Europe isn't unthinkable, and "the world's policeman" hasn't been someone to rely on for generations.

When the chips are down, we have to rely on ourselves - and cries of "haven't got the budget" are simply unacceptable.

Unfortunately, politicians focus on a five-year window after which they face the electorate - and remember, there is no situation a politician cannot make worse (especially where dogma is concerned).

If there is anything to be said for regimes like China, at least they have long-term planning not having to justify their decisions to an electorate.

 

[HappyHacker]

Back in the 80's, no M40 or M25, I worked for a London based company in the Manchester office. I had to go to head office in South London to train two colleagues. I drove my MGB, with a non working heater, leaving very early so I would get there about 9:00. It had been snowing overnight but the M6 and M1 were reasonably clear although there was some ice around Birmingham.
When I got to the North circular about 8:00 it looked like a scene from a disaster movie. I was one of very few cars so the roads were almost deserted apart from cars abandoned on the road, pavement and slip roads. I had to drive around the abandoned cars and due to the lack of traffic arrived at the office about 8:30 and had to wait in the car park until someone arrived to open up.
By 10:00 the two people I had come to train had not turned up so I phoned them. Apparently the police advice being given on the radio was not to travel except in an emergency so they were not coming in. They both lived less than 10 miles from the office!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Unfortunately, politicians focus on a five-year window after which they face the electorate - and remember, there is no situation a politician cannot make worse (especially where dogma is concerned).

If there is anything to be said for regimes like China, at least they have long-term planning not having to justify their decisions to an electorate.

The greatest problem with our system is that no matter how sound a plan/idea one Party has, the other Party is (honour?) bound to object to it.

 

[worn thumbs]

It snowed in June in the 70s too.

I can remember going fishing a day or two after the start of the coarse fishing season around that time and experiencing a light snow shower.That may have been the year that the BBC news featured young ladies in bikinis sunbathing in a London park during a January heatwave.Global warming eh?

As for daft and anti-car planners,are they a big export commodity for Switzerland?We seem to have acquired a large batch of them,might be that we ordered cuckoo clocks and they mis-read the paperwork.

 

[mcostello]

Wife left for work at 4:30 am. with a lot of snow and ice on the roads. After She left the Sherriff's closed the roads for safety. She got to work late by 10 minutes. Work cancelled after She left. People that stayed home got no points added to their record. Wife got wrote up for being late.

 

[Vulcan]

I’m not sure it’s worth the investment given how much snow we get in the UK? How much use would a snow plough get in Sussex?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Just had my flight to the US bumped by a day due to bad weather in the US. So it’s not just the U.K.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Folk are astoundingly stupid at times.

Hill dwellers and those doing ESSENTIAL jobs aside, snow makes things more difficult between 1 or 2 days every 5 or 10 years (namby pamby southerners) to 1 or 2 days a year north of Watford Gap.

Driving on such days increases your chances of a very cold night in the car 100 fold, and the chance of an expensive prang (severe or slight) 10 fold. My guesses.

As a tax payer there are far better things that I want done with my money than buy lots of expensive sophisticated snow clearing gear to sit idle 360 days a year.

Stay at home. The world can manage without you for a few hours - more likely you can either work remotely or clear a few chores put off for months.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And if you do need to use the car get winter tyres.

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

I have to agree with AES - years ago my father, who is now 78, decided to get winter tyres for his car for some reason or other and was amazed at the difference in driving even in and around SURREY which is not known for it's snowy winters. His wife thought it was a waste of money too, until he got her car tyres swapped out for winter tyres without telling her during a service. Apparently she was raving about how much better the car felt and maybe it had a problem she wasn't aware of - my father told her he'd had winter tyres put on and properly pressurised.

Now they both have it done every year, even though they drive a lot less now.

It's not particularly cheap for their cars and I don't think they store the summer tyres either so it's new tyres every 6 months at around 500-600 each car - but the other choice is just ONE accident from black ice or aquaplaning in storm water.

Why don't they just buy another set of wheels and have them swapped?

 

[Agent_zed]

Why don't they just buy another set of wheels and have them swapped?

And if you do need to use the car get winter tyres.

or just fit all season tyres (or cross-climate if you want the marketing speak of some manufacturers) and not bother having 2 sets of tyres a year. Mine are 3 peak and M+S rated and last almost as long as any other tyre I've had in the past (over 20k miles). Not worth the effort of having 2 sets of tyres (wheels) and getting them changed over and having to store them somewhere.