Isopon body filler - what a 'con' !

[stuart little]

What a load of faffle over a few grams, when most of it will never be used, in my experience. I'd say; "Buy bigger tins."

 

[RogerS]

What a load of faffle over a few grams, when most of it will never be used, in my experience. I'd say; "Buy bigger tins."

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

 

[Daniel2]

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

There's also the thing about "choosing your battles".

 

[budgie98]

It’s not friction Roger I may have opened a few more tins of filler than you would realise because I grew up around the family body shop. Upon opening you can hear and feel the release. Principles are fine things but some enjoy standing up for them to an odd extent have fun!

There is a deep flange on those cans, so much so that, on removal, the lid acts like a piston on the inlet stroke, and causes a depression in the body of the can, the relief of which is the sound and feeling that you get.

 

[RogerS]

There is a deep flange on those cans, so much so that, on removal, the lid acts like a piston on the inlet stroke, and causes a depression in the body of the can, the relief of which is the sound and feeling that you get.

Either that or it was the 'body shop' equivalent of the 'long wait'.

"'ere, Fred. Let's tell that new spotty youth that there's a vacuum in the tin and to listen for the hiss when he opens it. Then I'll give you the signal when to give a quick blast on the airline"

 

[stuart little]

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

I'd already had that thought, but a pint of beer (in a pub) is in a glass, easily topped off, not in a sealed container,

 

[paulrbarnard]

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

Normal in Germany…

 

[Tom K]

Don't be silly! You are talking nonsense!

Please explain how you compare a gas to a solid to press your point when the discussion concerned a liquid?

 

[RogerS]

Normal in Germany…

That's there to leave room for the Schnapps

 

[Tom K]

There is a deep flange on those cans, so much so that, on removal, the lid acts like a piston on the inlet stroke, and causes a depression in the body of the can, the relief of which is the sound and feeling that you get.

There is a deep flange on those cans, so much so that, on removal, the lid acts like a piston on the inlet stroke, and causes a depression in the body of the can, the relief of which is the sound and feeling that you get.

No they evacuate air from the can to maintain the product the flange isn’t that deep the lids are stepped (Not certain what the tiny tins Rog buys are exactly the same)
Photo taken this morning

 

[Tom K]

Either that or it was the 'body shop' equivalent of the 'long wait'.

"'ere, Fred. Let's tell that new spotty youth that there's a vacuum in the tin and to listen for the hiss when he opens it. Then I'll give you the signal when to give a quick blast on the airline"

Sorry Roger I skipped the spotty stage and my late Father wasn’t called Fred.

 

[Tom K]

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

Never happens you did on occasion have to ask them to top up to the line Which wasn’t at the rim of the glass oh just realised you won’t see this reply because I’m on ignore!

 

[Bob Chapman]

So how much does the product weigh given that it’s widely touted that volume and weight are interchangeable in the metric system? Does their blurb contain the magic words “When Filled”?

Here's another bit of 'armchair expert' nonsense. "...volume and weight are interchangeable in the metric system". So 1cc of hydrogen and 1cc of lead both weight 1g do they? Come on - think about it!

Please explain how you compare a gas to a solid to press your point when the discussion concerned a liquid?

Well, since you ask.
Your original statement about volume and weight actually is nonsense as a general statement. It is true for water, but only at 4 deg. C, as others have mentioned above.

In order to show you how wrong you must be, PhilTilson quoted two extreme examples 1cc of hydrogen and 1cc of lead. IF volume and weight were interchangeable then both of these would weigh 1g - which clearly they DON'T. The fact that hydrogen is a gas and lead is a solid makes no difference whatsoever. 1cc of Isopon (or other body filler) would not weigh 1g either.

The physical property you are talking about is called 'density' - the weight of 1cc of whatever material is being discussed. Everything has a density.

Some are clearly more dense than others.

 

[John Brown]

Well, since you ask.
Your original statement about volume and weight actually is nonsense as a general statement. It is true for water, but only at 4 deg. C, as others have mentioned above.

In order to show you how wrong you must be, PhilTilson quoted two extreme examples 1cc of hydrogen and 1cc of lead. IF volume and weight were interchangeable then both of these would weigh 1g - which clearly they DON'T. The fact that hydrogen is a gas and lead is a solid makes no difference whatsoever. 1cc of Isopon (or other body filler) would not weigh 1g either.

The physical property you are talking about is called 'density' - the weight of 1cc of whatever material is being discussed. Everything has a density.

Some are clearly more dense than others.

As long as you can still mend shoes, or your pet tortoise's carapace, then who cares if the tin's a bit underfilled...

 

[Tom K]

Well, since you ask.
Your original statement about volume and weight actually is nonsense as a general statement. It is true for water, but only at 4 deg. C, as others have mentioned above.

In order to show you how wrong you must be, PhilTilson quoted two extreme examples 1cc of hydrogen and 1cc of lead. IF volume and weight were interchangeable then both of these would weigh 1g - which clearly they DON'T. The fact that hydrogen is a gas and lead is a solid makes no difference whatsoever. 1cc of Isopon (or other body filler) would not weigh 1g either.

The physical property you are talking about is called 'density' - the weight of 1cc of whatever material is being discussed. Everything has a density.

Some are clearly more dense than others.

I said apples and oranges a well known expression for two totally disparate thing such as a gas Hydrogen and a solid Lead.
We are discussing a liquid and the manufacturer is using the terms interchangeably. In my reading of the reply Roger received I deduced that during manufacture the product was being dispensed at a viscosity where 250g and 250ml are one and the same thing Roger cant believe this because Roger wants to be right. It is clearly a case for the high courts Roger S versus David's who have swizzed him out of a tablespoon of body filler .
Clearly there are some dense people on this forum but they don't include me.

 

[RogerS]

As long as you can still mend shoes, or your pet tortoise's carapace, then who cares if the tin's a bit underfilled...

So you're quite happy to go and buy a pint that is only filled part way up the glass ? Or go to the petrol station and pay for 20 litres but only actually get 16 litres put into your tank?

 

[John Brown]

So you're quite happy to go and buy a pint that is only filled part way up the glass ? Or go to the petrol station and pay for 20 litres but only actually get 16 litres put into your tank?

No. I was making a whimsical reference to the David's Isopon blurb back in the 60s.

 

[RogerS]

Whimsical replies benefit from an emoticon. Otherwise ones post can get misconstrued and lose its charm.

 

[Suffolkboy]

Crimeny! I just read through thisbthread and realised I could have spent the time woodworking.

 

[Yorkieguy]

Some of us have principles, dear boy.

Let me put it into a context you might relate to.

You go into your local pub and order a pint of beer. When the glass comes you notice that there's a good inch or two of beer missing. Presumably you shrug your shoulders and say nothing ?

Of course you wouldn't shrug your shoulders because you haven't got the volume of beer you've ordered (so presumably you wouldn't pay for it till it's topped up).

But you analogy is illogical.

Why do people have difficulty understanding the difference between volume and weight - how many times does it have to be said? A pint of beer is a volume, and if there was 2 inches of beer missing it would be less than a pint.

250g of body filler is a weight - not a volume. If you had less than 250 g in weight you'd have a right to complain. The essence of the OP's complaint as I understand it, is that the maker's have used a container which is much larger than the contents inside would suggest, which he feels is a 'con trick' by inferring that you get more filler than is in the can.

I've no idea if there's a technical reason for that, but I use Ronseal two-part wood-filler, and very good it is too. The slogan says 'It does exactly what it say on the tin', which is true, but what is IN the tin is rather less than what the SIZE of the tin suggests. Anyone else who uses it will know that when you take the green plastic lid off the top of the container, it reveals a metal 'dish' (25mm or so deep), with a plastic spatula and tube of catalyst to mix with the filler. The 'dish' can, if desired, be used in which to mix the filler.

Then when you remove the metal dish (the lid), there is air space about 1/3 the depth of the can, then the filler in the bottom. Is there a technical reason for this, or is it a 'con trick? I don't know, and I really don't care. Like Isopon, its an excellent product, it keeps well, and I don't think the price is extortionate, so I'll just keep on not minding. What I buy is either a 550g can, or a 1kG can. Nowhere does it say I'm buying a can-full.

If I go to a greengrocer and buy 1kG of tomatoes and they put them in a paper bag which was a bit on the large size, and I said: "Hey - this bag is half-empty" I'd expect them to ask why I'd been allowed out without my carer.

As to a vacuum in a can of Isopon?

Huh? It's a two-part catalytic product - not a can of beans, and it's only activated by the catalyst, so what would be the point of a vacuum? Cans of beans have the lids sealed on with the can of beans at a high temperature. The vacuum is formed when the beans cool down and contract, which preserves an otherwise perishable product.

I think this thread is destined to have a longer run than 'The Mousetrap' in the West End.

They walk among us.