Is this a router, or is this a router?

[JobandKnock]

The negativity is because it is really just looks like another piece of technology looking for a purpose - a bit like an I-Phone in many ways. Festool, rightly or wrongly, have garnered a reputation as a firm which produces rich boys toys. This looks likely to be another one, but if you could give a real world example (or better three) of how useful this tool could be and how much time it could save in a working environment (in otherwise how you'd ammortise the cost of purchasing and running one) I'd be grateful to hear it. It doesn't have to be general construction, in fact interior fit-out (something I have a few decades at) would be more the area I am thinking about, but neither I nor a number of former colleagues can find any meaningful, justifiable reason for this piece of kit. Despite several discussions on the subject, every suggested use could be done faster or cheaper using existing methods. At least to date

 

[Distinterior]

.......but if you could give a real world example (or better three) of how useful this tool could be and how much time it could save in a working environment (in otherwise how you'd ammortise the cost of purchasing and running one) I'd be grateful to hear it.....

I have already highlighted one example in my post (25) 26 of this thread....

I can think of quite a number of tasks the Shaper would be able to do within my own sphere of work,....if I was doing these tasks often enough to justify the investment.

It doesn't mean, just because one man cant justify the usefulness of a tool, that it is pointless....!!

 

[Doug B]

I don’t pretend to know your line of business @JobandKnock all I can relate to is my own, I can definitely say everything I have had cut by others on a CNC I could have cut myself if I had owned a Shaper & knew how to work it.
In comparison to what these businesses have paid for their CNC machines the Shaper is peanuts, as to folks who think Festool products are rich boys toys that just shows a lack of business knowledge on their part.
In my experience all quality tools are expensive & that investment in those tools can only be recouped if you have a need for those tools, I fully understand if folks can’t see a need for a tool then it is of no worth to them but to deride it due to that is absurd.

 

[Jimmy69]

The Origin is a disruptive technology that has all the potential to turn the hobby market (at first) on its head. In a way, it reminds me of what happened to photography when the digital camera was developed. You all remember Kodak right? Considering they were the first to invent the ccd chip, they did a pretty poor job of getting it to market unlike Fuji who had there own version and are now world leaders in DP whilst Kodak are dust. The origin is in its developmental stage and is mostly useful to people who are interested in change for the sake of innovation and are willing to experiment and take risks. Personally, I don't want a tool that needs babysitting when I could get similar results by other means. I'll wait until it doesn't need babysitting at all ( or much less). As end users we can jump in and out of this technology at will - providing we have the means to do so, but it will be the companies that ignore this tech that will suffer in the end. I reckon this sort of machine will be common in 10 years. I would not want to be the next "Kodak".

 

[JobandKnock]

I have already highlighted one example in my post (25) 26 of this thread....

And the example you gave was in situ inlay work - which in these days of mainly veneered furniture and fittings, and of readily available, commercially laser cut (and even shaded) veneer inlay patterns is a really big market.... Oh, wait. It isn't

I can definitely say everything I have had cut by others on a CNC I could have cut myself if I had owned a Shaper & knew how to work it.

I'd suggest, then, that you take a look at either traditional draughting or CAD as a starting point - because the Shaper, like any such product, is only as good as the drawing it works from, and I somehow think the back of a *** packet sketch won't work that well with the Origin

...as to folks who think Festool products are rich boys toys that just shows a lack of business knowledge on their part.

Au contrair. A very good example of Festool's approach is the way they view the trade market. In the UK and I believe Ireland and a number of other markets, we use 110 volt AC supplied through an isolating transformer on construction sites for all corded power tools - which normally means that many construction industry tools (at least from other power tool manufacturers) are fundamentally just rebadged and recertified versions of the US models. No problems there, however Festool, "the professional tool firm" often doesn't see the need to supply 110 volt tools in the UK, and didn't for decades. Even now, some tools which are probably site type tools (like the 230mm rip saw and the Domino DF700) aren't available in 110 volt. Surely that could be classed as "lack of business knowledge" on their part because after all, shouldn't a tool company be aware of local regulations? Where we do get 110 volt versions, Festool kindly strip out some functionality which is very relevant in site work, e.g braking on plunge saws, etc. So yes, they certainly give the impression of being rich boys toys

AFAIK the North and South American markets get a similar deal because over on FOG there are periodic outbursts about the lack of this or that tool in the USA

So yes, like the Sawstop, this is another piece of meaningless technology seemingly bring done simply because it can be

But before you write me off as some form of power tool luddite, I should say that I own two sizes of Festool rail saws, two Festool routers, a Festool planer and a Kapex and that I've been derided for early adoption of technology in the past (such as the plunging rail saw nearly 20 years ago) - so I know the company and quite a few of their products. Hence with some of their recent tool acquisitions (e.g Sawstop and Origin) I am becoming ever more sceptical about their seemingly "toys for rich boys" philosophy

 

[Doug B]

“Sigh”

 

[Jimmy69]

This tool has not actually changed since Festool bought it and can not really be seen as a festool product but only as an acquisition.

 

[Spectric]

When you think of trade tools it is Makita, Bosch and Dewalt that spring to mind, all readily available in 110 volt and rugged enough to stand site abuse, Festool is an expensive brand and having brought the 700 domino I can say they may have a lot of bells & whistles but do not standout on quality. In my opinion you can get most tools that will perform to the required level without looking at festool or Maefel, my Makita tracksaw is nice and basic, 110 volt and cuts much better than I expected from 1300 watts and cost just over £300 inc a rail. Why would I pay more for something that has a few extra features that I don't need or would use.

This shaper is in another field of woodworking, just like in metal work where I new a guy who could make anything in the workshop using manual machinery but was computer illiterate, even down to emails yet there was another guy who was the opposite, hopeless on manual but very clever on CNC programing and could get large batches of work done so it is just another branch of real woodworker v modern woodworker v CNC woodworker, but I still say it is more of a workshop tool.

 

[Doug B]

This tool has not actually changed since Festool bought it and can not really be seen as a festool product but only as an acquisition.

The tool as it is today was co designed with Festool though it has gone through a few changes since Alex Rivers came up with the first prototype in 2011.

 

[Jimmy69]

The tool as it is today was co designed with Festool though it has gone through a few changes since Alex Rivers came up with the first prototype in 2011.

Yeah you're right. Festool made the spindle and systainer.

 

[Ollie78]

I can see many uses for the Shaper in the customisation of existing work, repairs to things too big to put in the normal CNC machine, you could use it vertically if need be.
I think it would be generally a very useful tool to have and I think when you have one you will find many other uses for it.
I can imagine it would be great for adding artistic touches to all sorts of things.
It is clearly not made for hogging out tons of material but this is not its intended use and to view this as a weak point is a (possibly deliberate) missunderstanding of the tool.
From the look of the software I think it looks very easy to set up for simple operations and could be used for a quick "template" job without having to make up a template, this could be a great timesaver actually.

I was interested in it since way before Festool got involved and I think their involment probably helped with the motor etc.

As I have a regular CNC machine already I have not invested in a Shaper Origin as I don`t "need" one.
However if I did not have a machine already I would seriously consider it, a cartesian CNC with any decent capability will cost at least the same money and be a pretty small size as well.
If it was £2000 I would probably get one anyway but at £4k it is a bit much.

I can see it being very handy to have in the van/workshop.

Ollie

 

[baldkev]

Ive just read through the thread.....
I havent seen one before and im not a festool guy, but i wouldnt have an opinion on festo unless id tried their kit. I have a few things I'd like to get cnc'd and looks like the shaper would do it easy enough. I have no cad experience but could do with learning. I tried sketchup once to do a design of something resembling a paint tin, but it was late at night and I soon got frustrated!

It would however be interesting to have one of these for a week and see what / how much you can do with it.

In terms of money, i could not justify it for me, but im sure lots of businesses could.... and maybe it would open up possibilities for new product ranges or options. I'll stick it on the 'want to try' list right under the domino