Is there an oil and wax finishes guide out there?

[MG1977]

I'm thinking ahead to the finishing of my multi hardwood stripy shelves and have become befuddled over the range of possibilities.

Previously I've used Danish oil (8-12 coats) for cherry window boards that I made, but have since been told about sanding sealer (some shellac, some spirit, some oil based), grain filler (or do I use plaster of paris?), carnauba wax etc and now have no idea of the best way forward!

I'd like to learn a little about when each of these could (or should) be used and what impact they have on things such as durability of finish, colour or discolouring of the wood and whether you use them together all the time?

At the moment I'm thinking I would plane the shelves to size, scrape as best I can and then apply sanding sealer, two coats of Danish oil and then finish with either Black Bison or Briwax....but do I need the Dainish oil at all? Should I be filling the grain?

I'm using a combination of Walnut, Mahogany, Iroko, Oak, Cherry, Ash and Maple...mainly offcuts resawn and glued into blocks to recycle as much as possible.

Any advice appreciated, but I understand that this is a huge topic....I should also state that at the moment I'm unlikely to have the time to be mixing my own, although I do like that idea for future projects, that and French polishing are probable one step to far for this student of the craft!

Thanks for any guidance as ever!!

 

[AndyT]

I sympathise with your question. If there is such a guide available, I've not found it.

The whole question gets horribly muddled (as far as I can see) by very loose use of terminology. For instance, "Danish Oil" is (if I have got even this bit right) a blend of oil and varnish, unlike Linseed Oil, which is just oil.
Waxes are either natural (beeswax, carnauba wax) or synthetic/petroleum derived and mixed with a solvent.
So what's a Hard Wax Oil? ;-)

When you are trying to buy the stuff, generic designations are no good unless they match what is printed on the label, so a proper guide needs to list all the current trade names. (Also all the old ones used in books and magazines.)

The nearest thing to a comprehensive guide that I have seen recommended is "Flexner on Finishes" - but I've never bothered buying a copy as it's an American publication and there are so many differences in what they call things and what products are available worldwide or only locally that it does not seem worth it.

I end up, as I guess so many of us do, using a few known useful finishes and sticking with just them.

Oh and fwiw, my attempt to answer your specific question is that you could use sanding sealer followed by wax OR lots of Danish oil with a little wax at the end if you wanted it to smell nice but don't need all three.

I'd say you could fill the grain on your more open grained woods (oak, ash) but there is no necessity to do so if you are using lots of coats of Danish, or not aiming at a mirror finish.

Others will know a lot more than I do on this one, and I will be interested to see some other answers.

 

[marcros]

i have a book by Jeff Jowett, which I think is very good, but it is not the guide that you suggest. Like Andy, I don't think that exists.

Driven by efficiency and economy, I typically use very few finishes now. I find that they can go off before I have used a reasonable amount, so I typically use boiled linseed oil, tru oil, shellac (mix a bit up myself as needed) and a couple of colours of wax. The wax doesnt have a shelf life, so i dont mind buying a different colour if I need to- I have a clear, Jacobean oak, a teak (I think), and maybe another oak/mid brown. Same with dry shellac, where I have a blonde, a mid and an amber, which I also use a dilute mix as a sanding sealer.

If it is a big project, I may buy something for it, but I try to avoid doing so. If I really don't like something that I have when I try it on a scrap, then i may look for alternatives.

When I first started, I fell into the trap of having a different finish for every project, and 12 months later, throwing 95% of a bottle out.

I have also found, that it is not the finish itself which is limiting my work- the application of the finish, the design, etc maybe. but not the finish itself.

 

[MG1977]

Thanks guys, it's kinda reassuring that it's not just me...I guess it's one of those open ended questions such as 'what is the best X?' when in fact best is relative and dependant upon so many factors including time, size, budget end use etc...

But in the absence of a definitive guide, could you clarify what sanding sealer does exactly? Do I NEED it and am I daft not using it before? I tend not to aim for ultra glossy, but some reflection is nice, and when broken by a little texture helps some folk thinking it's plastic!! So I'm guessing filling the grain isn't that necessary for me.

Would these products be recommended together?

Fiddes Shellac Sanding Sealer > Briwax Original (I was put off by it saying 'used extensively in the pine furniture industry' on the website) or Black Bison...is that a harder or softer finish to Briwax...no mention of Carnauba wax on their website.

what effect does putting the oil between the sealer and the wax have? Does this increase longevity or simply speed up getting to a final finish?

Apologies for more questions!! I will look up the books you mentioned, maybe I can get them from the library.

Cheers

 

[MIGNAL]

Here's my quick guide to the three finishes that you mention:

Danish Oil. Usually just a modern Oil varnish highly diluted so that it gives a wipe on wipe off finish. It avoids brush marks normally associated with much thicker Oil varnishes. Dries without too many problems related to dust. It's an extremely thin finish unless you apply many, many coats. Dries relatively slowly. Very easy to apply. Fairly tough but not hard. Contrary to many opinions you can get it to high gloss but that's certainly not the usual finish. As with any Oil finish it gives a rich effect to the grain of the wood.

Shellac. A hard, brittle resin like material. Available in many different types or 'shades'. Can be brushed, sprayed or padded on. Needs some skill to apply. Dries rapidly but needs weeks/months to truly harden. Normally associated with a high gloss finish but it is possible to finish it matte. Easily tinted with dyes. Readily repaired. Doesn't quite pop the grain (as with Oil) but hardly disagreeable.

Wax. One of the easiest finishes to use/apply. Soft but also warm looking with a warm tactile feel. Offers very little protection, neither hard or tough. Extremely easy to apply subsequent coats of wax though. I usually apply a couple of very thin coats of Shellac before applying wax. I'm not keen on applying wax on top of high gloss finishes. Doing so just seems to highlight finger marks ect. readily.

Shellac and Danish Oil won't go on top of wax but you can put wax on top of both Shellac and Oil.
Danish Oil will go over Shellac but you lose some of the advantage of applying Danish Oil directly on wood.
Shellac will go over Danish Oil but only if the Danish Oil is aplied in one or two very thin coats and is thoroughly dry first.

 

[Fromey]

This might be useful, but as far as I know, there is no supplier in the UK and postage from Canada is as much as the book itself

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... em/AQ-1151

 

[xy mosian]

" what sanding sealer does exactly? "
As I understand it :-
Sanding Sealer 'fixes' the fibres of the wood so they sand rather than moving out of the way, giving a smoother finish. It also seals the grain to fill it slightly and reduce the tendency of following finishes to soak in. My current favourite finish is two coats of shellac sanding sealer, lightly sanded between, and after, followed by a natural wax finish. Using a shaded sealer can give a hint of colour to wood, especially light wood, being aware that any sealer may well prevent a coloured wax giving its deapest shade. I doubt this is the toughest finish around but it is quickly rewarding.
xy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As someone (I believe from one of the finish companies) pointed out a while ago - it doesn't make much sense to use as a finish coat something that is specifically made to be scratched (sanded). That seems perfectly sensible to me. I use it on occasion but I try to avoid it as it sometimes interferes with the absorption of oil based finishes. Each to their own, though.

 

[bugbear]

Here's my quick guide to the three finishes that you mention:

Danish Oil. Usually just a modern Oil varnish highly diluted so that it gives a wipe on wipe off finish. It avoids brush marks normally associated with much thicker Oil varnishes. Dries without too many problems related to dust. It's an extremely thin finish unless you apply many, many coats. Dries relatively slowly. Very easy to apply. Fairly tough but not hard. Contrary to many opinions you can get it to high gloss but that's certainly not the usual finish. As with any Oil finish it gives a rich effect to the grain of the wood.

If you're used to linseed (even BLO) danish dries FAST (2-3 days IME). But there are "thick" Danish Oils (e.g. Liberon "Finishing Oil") which are even more varnish-y (more body) and dry even faster (about 1 hour).

So there's an almost infinite spectrum.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

It's a little more complicated than that. Put one coat of Shellac on and it's touch dry in a few minutes and fairly hard in a day. Put 20 coats on and it won't become hard for 3 weeks or so. It's the same with finishing Oils, except more so. Touch dry isn't quite the same as dry which isn't the same as fully cured.

 

[Harbo]

I have used Osmo poly X and Sam Maloof's mix (mix of various oils and white spirit) but found that several layers of thinned down PU varnish (in Matt, satin or gloss) followed by wax, works just as well. And cheap!

Rod

 

[Alexam]

My son and I make a few bandsaw boxes and use Briwax sanding sealer and microcrystalline wax polish. Sometimes use Briwax wax polish. We have been very satisfied with the results.

After sanding the material through to 400 grit, we then use the sanding sealer. After that has dried, we sand again to 600 grit and usually seal again before using the wax. That is also sanded again with 600 grit, waxed again and usually results in a good finish.