Incra Cleansweep, Camvac and Requirement

[Braddersmd]

Hi all, I'm a fairly new reader to the forum, and it's time for me to say hello.....with a question. I hope it's the right place.

I am currently awaiting delivery of an Incra table c/w cleansweep, lift, router and LS positioner (the 17 was available, and seemed a good place to start) - previously having only a DeWalt DCW604 and accessories. I did have it mounted in a Kreg bench top table, and managed to make a rudimentary wine rack (or extend a bought one using the existing supports as a profile to follow). Being cooped up (I was instructed to shield originally) for much of the year has given me a challenge to fill both time, and brain.

I've been told by the supplier that Incra recommend a minimum 350cfm to make use of the cleansweep properly, having asked about connecting it to a CT26, opening me to the wonderful world of HVLP extractors. Reading and searching, the options for me are limited due to space considerations. Without building a soundproofed shed on the back of the garage, and punching through the external wall, the only units I think I can fit indoors are the ATG700DP (pricey - but will fit under some racking) from Axminster, or a Camvac. Looking at the specs of the Camvac, it appears that the 3 motor CGV386-6 almost scrapes into the requirement range - 162 l/sec appears to be 343cfm.

Has anyone successfully used a Camvac with the Cleansweep, and is it man enough? It also appears to be able to fit inside the frame of the Incra table - can anyone see problems building one inside the table and soundproofing, if it is up to the job? Overheating issues? Looking at other threads I would also need to connect an acoustic pipe to it, and maybe baffle it too.

I have quite a few hand tools, mostly Dewalt 18v stuff, that connect to the CT26, along with a Festool tracksaw, bought together with the "extractor". The only other gear I have that may make use of HVLP is a 54v table saw, again Dewalt - I have been using it with the vac.

 

[TheTiddles]

If I’m looking at the same thing, the clean sweep is a box round the router and a vented insert ring, getting a very high flow through/round that would be an achievement, so I wouldn’t be too fussed about the specifications. You’ll also get highly variable results depending on if you have the fence on/off, size of cutter etc.... extraction is good but with a router table it’s a best effort thing rather than being perfect I find

Aidan

 

[PAC1]

Hi and welcome.
I use an old twin motor CamVac with my Incra set up (no clean sweep). It works well, no doubt with the clean sweep it would be better. I would definitely recommend a twin motor model rather than a single motor. Have you also ordered the Wonder fence as that also has an extraction port. I tend to prefer high pressure low volume for routers and bandsaws and high volume low pressure for bigger dust and chip creators.

 

[Sideways]

Just one observation not knowing this kit but having learnt that there are many products on the market designed by idiots who have no idea about anything technical nor the faintest iota of "common sense":
Your router is designed to draw (lots of) cooling air in the back end and blast it towards the cutter to clear away chips.
If you stick a router in a sealed enclosure to control dust and noise, with a dust extractor pulling air in some "wrong" direction consider that you may well compromise the intended airflow and create problems of overheating. If you put the router in a box without a hole in the back to let air IN to the tool's air inlet, you have cut off the supply of fresh air that it needs.

On the other hand. having a camvac or other vacuum cleaner type extractor (that's all they are - vacuum cleaner motors in a big drum) attached to a router table fence is noisy but totally sensible. It will reinforce the routers designed airflow and will provide high suction and air velocity to pull chips out of the small space around the cutter - exactly what should work best.
Extraction on the fence is useless if you are making grooves mid panel etc, in that case, connecting your extraction to the router's dust collection shroud around the cutter and below the table is what makes most sense.
Routers spew big volumes of dust and chips from a small cutter. You need a high suction high velocity air stream to take these away from where they are made and to get them down the vacuum cleaner hose without it clogging.

When it arrives, send the cleansweep back for a refund. Save your money and do your router a favour !

 

[PAC1]

Just one observation not knowing this kit but having learnt that there are many products on the market designed by idiots who have no idea about anything technical nor the faintest iota of "common sense":
Your router is designed to draw (lots of) cooling air in the back end and blast it towards the cutter to clear away chips.
If you stick a router in a sealed enclosure to control dust and noise, with a dust extractor pulling air in some "wrong" direction consider that you may well compromise the intended airflow and create problems of overheating. If you put the router in a box without a hole in the back to let air IN to the tool's air inlet, you have cut off the supply of fresh air that it needs.

On the other hand. having a camvac or other vacuum cleaner type extractor (that's all they are - vacuum cleaner motors in a big drum) attached to a router table fence is noisy but totally sensible. It will reinforce the routers designed airflow and will provide high suction and air velocity to pull chips out of the small space around the cutter - exactly what should work best.
Extraction on the fence is useless if you are making grooves mid panel etc, in that case, connecting your extraction to the router's dust collection shroud around the cutter and below the table is what makes most sense.
Routers spew big volumes of dust and chips from a small cutter. You need a high suction high velocity air stream to take these away from where they are made and to get them down the vacuum cleaner hose without it clogging.

When it arrives, send the cleansweep back for a refund. Save your money and do your router a favour !

I am not sure you can put Incra in the "idiots" class

 

[MikeK]

Depending on the lift that comes with your Incra system, you might want to consider buying a router motor designed to be used in a router table. I have the Incra table and frame, LS-17 positioner/fence, Mast-R-Lift II, CleanSweep, and the MagnaLock rings for the lift. I'm using the AUKTools V3 router motor, since it pairs perfectly with the Mast-R-Lift II.

The exhaust port on the CleanSweep housing is 100mm (4 inches), but the inlet is through the MagnaLOCK rings, which have a considerably smaller area than the outlet. As Aiden stated, you might realize an adequate airflow through the system if using the CT26, but I don't think it will be enough for the CleanSweep and the fence extraction. If you don't already have it for your track saw, I recommend the 36mm hose with the CT26 for use with the CleanSweep. You'll have to come up with an interface between the CleanSweep and the CT26 hose.

 

[Lonsdale73]

I had three routers die within the space of two years. I was asked if I used them in any form of enclosure, which I did, and was advised - as Sideways mentions above, that the enclosure was almost certainly responsible for the problem. The third replacement has never been enclosed and - hoping I'm not tempting fate - has lasted a lot longer than its predecessors.

Incidentally, the Incra LS is fantastic. I went for the larger one but in truth I suspect I'd have been fine with the 17"

 

[MikeK]

I had three routers die within the space of two years. I was asked if I used them in any form of enclosure, which I did, and was advised - as Sideways mentions above, that the enclosure was almost certainly responsible for the problem. The third replacement has never been enclosed and - hoping I'm not tempting fate - has lasted a lot longer than its predecessors.

Incidentally, the Incra LS is fantastic. I went for the larger one but in truth I suspect I'd have been fine with the 17"

Out of curiosity, were the failed routers hand-held versions used in a table, or specifically designed for use in a table? I agree with Sideways that some (most?) hand-held routers might not be suited for table use because of the cooling vents for the motor.

 

[TheTiddles]

Sideways is pretty well on the money here
Aidan

 

[Braddersmd]

Depending on the lift that comes with your Incra system, you might want to consider buying a router motor designed to be used in a router table. I have the Incra table and frame, LS-17 positioner/fence, Mast-R-Lift II, CleanSweep, and the MagnaLock rings for the lift. I'm using the AUKTools V3 router motor, since it pairs perfectly with the Mast-R-Lift II.

The exhaust port on the CleanSweep housing is 100mm (4 inches), but the inlet is through the MagnaLOCK rings, which have a considerably smaller area than the outlet. As Aiden stated, you might realize an adequate airflow through the system if using the CT26, but I don't think it will be enough for the CleanSweep and the fence extraction. If you don't already have it for your track saw, I recommend the 36mm hose with the CT26 for use with the CleanSweep. You'll have to come up with an interface between the CleanSweep and the CT26 hose.

The setup will be identical to yours Mike - A system 3 table combo, together with Mast-R-Lift II, AUKTools V3 and CleanSweep. I guess the best place to start would be the 36mm hose which would come in handy anyway, and something to connect them if I can find something suitable. I was advised it wouldn't be enough, so more than likely will then jump for a Camvac, if that's the theory - will the 2 motor be strong enough, or will I need a 3 motor model. If I had the space, I would jump straight for one of the fine dust extractors and setup properly, but alas, the boss has taken up most of the garage with her lockdown gym gear.

 

[PAC1]

I chose not to have a clean sweep in my Incra set up because I was concerned at airflow to the router motor. Instead I enclosed the router in a box of my own making (guaranteed leaky!) and provided an amount of venting against the underside of the table. I also have 100mm extract port and a fairly big extractor hooked up. It is also essential to get the It has run for 4/5 years now without a problem

The setup will be identical to yours Mike - A system 3 table combo, together with Mast-R-Lift II, AUKTools V3 and CleanSweep. I guess the best place to start would be the 36mm hose which would come in handy anyway, and something to connect them if I can find something suitable. I was advised it wouldn't be enough, so more than likely will then jump for a Camvac, if that's the theory - will the 2 motor be strong enough, or will I need a 3 motor model. If I had the space, I would jump straight for one of the fine dust extractors and setup properly, but alas, the boss has taken up most of the garage with her lockdown gym gear.

I would go straight to the CamVac solution. Incra do not recommend a shop vac solution and have fitted a 100mm port to the Cleansweep in order to get sufficient air passing the router to keep it cool and stop burnout (to avoid the concerns expressed above). In other words there design is based upon having a very big airflow to extract and keep the motor cool. Also make sure you get the MagnaLock rings with the vent holes as new fresh air needs to come in from somewhere and the additional slots help clear the debris. I did not go with the Cleansweep because I was concerned about airflow to the router. The set up I have has provided plenty of air and so I have had no problems of over heating over the last 4/5 years since I installed it. My set up is simply to put the router in a reasonable well sealed (but slightly leaky) cupboard (a bit like Mikes but without the Cleansweep) and then extract using 100mm hose and fitting. It works efficiently.

 

[Braddersmd]

I chose not to have a clean sweep in my Incra set up because I was concerned at airflow to the router motor. Instead I enclosed the router in a box of my own making (guaranteed leaky!) and provided an amount of venting against the underside of the table. I also have 100mm extract port and a fairly big extractor hooked up. It is also essential to get the It has run for 4/5 years now without a problem

I would go straight to the CamVac solution. Incra do not recommend a shop vac solution and have fitted a 100mm port to the Cleansweep in order to get sufficient air passing the router to keep it cool and stop burnout (to avoid the concerns expressed above). In other words there design is based upon having a very big airflow to extract and keep the motor cool. Also make sure you get the MagnaLock rings with the vent holes as new fresh air needs to come in from somewhere and the additional slots help clear the debris. I did not go with the Cleansweep because I was concerned about airflow to the router. The set up I have has provided plenty of air and so I have had no problems of over heating over the last 4/5 years since I installed it. My set up is simply to put the router in a reasonable well sealed (but slightly leaky) cupboard (a bit like Mikes but without the Cleansweep) and then extract using 100mm hose and fitting. It works efficiently.

Thanks PAC1, much appreciated. Yes, I went for the MagnaLock rings as well with the system. By the sound of it, I would be better with the 3 motor Camvac too - the more airflow the better.

 

[MikeK]

My set up is simply to put the router in a reasonable well sealed (but slightly leaky) cupboard (a bit like Mikes but without the Cleansweep) and then extract using 100mm hose and fitting. It works efficiently.

If I wasn't using the spare space in the cupboard for storage, I would have not used the CleanSweep and made the cupboard a large plenum. This would have made the cable modifications for the router and Wixey less complicated.

Thanks PAC1, much appreciated. Yes, I went for the MagnaLock rings as well with the system. By the sound of it, I would be better with the 3 motor Camvac too - the more airflow the better.

I think you will be better with the 3-motor version. I'm not bashful about modifying new tools and equipment, so the first thing I would remove are the plastic grids in the outlet ports.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Out of curiosity, were the failed routers hand-held versions used in a table, or specifically designed for use in a table? I agree with Sideways that some (most?) hand-held routers might not be suited for table use because of the cooling vents for the motor.

Yes, they were. I think the Americans tend to favour the Porter Cable type that resemble your AUK and are probably designed for the purpose.

 

[TheTiddles]

It’s a pity there isn’t a 100mm cowl you can snap on the top of your inverted router to take a section of hose to the bottom of the box, then it can draw its own clean air and not fight the extractor
Aidan

 

[Sideways]

I am not sure you can put Incra in the "idiots" class

No sacred cows here. Folk pay just as much a premium for the red and gold coolaid as others do for the green coolaid.
Incra built a business out of one really clever innovation many decades ago.
Marketing plays a big part in that business and marketing aren't always good at listening to engineers. Not all of the products are really worth paying the premium for.

 

[Braddersmd]

Well, I went for it in the end, 3 motor Camvac, to sit under the table. It appears on first running, routing ply and pine, to be working a treat - not a spec of dust to be seen anywhere. Time will tell if it stays as impressive, with more use and larger workpieces. It's fairly weighty empty, so not sure how happy I will be when I have to lift it to empty it. Bought some additional 2.5" pipes to connect up to the gates on the top, but have to say I was relatively surprised at how little noise it generated without connecting them.

 

[llywmog]

2 and a half years' on, how has the setup proven for you?

Has the AUK motor overheated or failed?

I'm toying with purchasing the Cleansweep system to connect my Camvac to the same router setup as yours, but am worried about the overheating issue mentioned above. I'll be reducing the hose to 63mm from the Cleansweep to make the most of the twin motor of the 286 Wall.

Thanks

Well, I went for it in the end, 3 motor Camvac, to sit under the table. It appears on first running, routing ply and pine, to be working a treat - not a spec of dust to be seen anywhere. Time will tell if it stays as impressive, with more use and larger workpieces. It's fairly weighty empty, so not sure how happy I will be when I have to lift it to empty it. Bought some additional 2.5" pipes to connect up to the gates on the top, but have to say I was relatively surprised at how little noise it generated without connecting them.