Inca Euro 205 Bandsaw photos added

[Steve Blackdog]

By the way, mine has virtually no vibes running and is pretty quiet - I have a different motor to yours, but I can't see that being the difference.

Whenever I buy an old piece of machinery, I always forget that if it has been used for 15 years it may require more TLC than a new one. If you find my Dewalt dw625 thread, you will see that I paid quite a lot for that and had to replace the armature - total cost - same as a new one The problem with ebay is you never know whether the machine has been loved by a craftsman, or kept in the back of the Transit by a builder whose interests lie in bricks and mortar rather than wood craft.

I exchanged emails with Ian at Tuffsaws - he said that the bad tracking might be to do with the blade. I since put a 3/8ths blade on that the seller gave me - a bit rusty, but unused - and it was far easier to track. I suspect that the old 1/4" blade that was on it when it came had been on it for 15 years. The owner said he'd never replaced the blade.

I wonder whether keeping the same blade in for so long (probably at full tension) would result in twisting of the frame, or perhaps just stretching of the blade??

I suspect that the Euro range isn't quite the same as the older Swiss ones. But all in all, I'm still pleased with my punt. I reckon you'll sort it eventually.

Steve

 

[bob531]

HI Again,
Jim, Douglas ,Steve and Woodbloke (i used a small plank of wood (hammer) ), thanksfor the replies, interestingly last time i was on here i had trouble with a 3 phase Jet JWBS 18 bandsaw i bought cheap from a college clearance(£500 + free Axminster twin motor dust extractor) got it sorted and its served me well so far.
Heres what i did today:
1) stripped it all down as advised and cleaned it.
2) Checked the wheel tyres and cleaned them ,they do slope slightly to the outside in the last third of the tyre where the blades been riding.
I may swap the tyres around later so the flat side is where the blade rides??? Not sure if its a good idea?
3) Checked the fit of the wheels on the spindles and tried to get them co-planar. This was alot of fiddling about. The upper wheel i noticed had bearings front and back.The back one was very loose for some strange reason and when the wheel is pushed on the spindle the rear bearing slipped forward so that it was butting against the front bearing. This could cause some wobble so i removed the rear bearing,slipped some loose washer on and then the bearing to stop the bearing moving forward and staying in place. The wheel seemed less wobbly .
The bottom wheel was around 5- 6mm behind the top wheel so had to be moved forward loosening the grub screw as Steve mentioned.
One thing i noticed was that the bottom wheel was a very loose fit on the motor spindle and wobbled quite badly when shaken with the hand from side to side.I solved this by slipping some steel shim in the wheel bore so that it was all around the spindle apart from where the key block went. The first shim itried was still slack,the second as well but the third was tight and i had to use a mallet to gently tap it on into the position where it was about as co-planar as i could get it.The best i could do was with both edges of the top wheel and the bottom of the bottom wheel co-planar. The to edge of the bottom wheel was slightly in towards the back of the machine. Dont know why this was ??
I noticed that the lower wheel seemed to turn with a slighlt side to side wobble despite it being tight on the spindle , whilst trying to get the wheel back off which would now not budge using a small plank of wood,the wheel must have bent slightly or something as now the wheel was spinning perfectly without the side to side wobble. I dont if this was with just the pressure of the wood on the aluminium wheel or what???
4) The blade that the saw came with was a 1/2" fine tooth blade. I got it to track with the teeth just over the edge on the bottom and about 1/8" in from the edge on the top wheel. No matter how many times i adjuster it it was the best i got..
5 ) i put a new 3/8" blade from Tuffsaws on and the tracking was similar. Funny thing is the tension seemed to have more effect on the tracking than the adjusting knurled nuts at the top rear of the saw.When the tension was at about 4 1/2 on the inbuilt scale the balde tracked ok. If it was turned any higher it slipped off the bottom wheel. :x
6) I had noticed that there was three door closing knobs .I assumed the stand off bar was missing on mine on the side next to the switch as there was a little threaded screw about an inch long. I was wrong the screw isnt even in line with the rear knob so the rear knob was in fact just a dummy knob?????? When the saw was switch on the rear of the door casing vibrated and moved out triggering the door switch and turning the saw off.
I drilled a hole in the rear of the saw inline with the third knob (this knob ,though a dummy was thread inside the same as the other two).
I then cut a coach bolt to the right length ,put nuts on the inside to secure it and the knob now works great. Much less vibration.
Ive read on other forums that some of these saws had only two knobs ,this seems like a transitional model in between a 2 and 3 knob door casing.
7) The fastening on the edge of the table where the slot for getting the blade in was missing on this saw,more vibration!. I cut a strip of gauge plate and drilled two holes in it and bolted it to the table. This worked and even less vibration.
8) there was a strange sheet metal part bolted to the side of the saw under the table, i removed this object?????Anyone??
9) Guildes all seemed fine apart from the blocks were rather chewed up so i just reversed these.
10) Started saw up and cuts fine with very little vibration, a pound coin on edge just sort of vibrates around a little but didnt fall over. It is less noisy as well. Im quite quite pleased with it now but wish the blades were tracking similarly on each wheel.The manual states the blade teeth should just hang over the edge,but i`d rather a 1/4" blade (which i havent tried yet ) would ride a little in from the edge, seems a safer idea!
Heres some photos of said saw!
Table isnt flat not sure what to do about that yet.Its flat from front to back in the direction you would push wood through.The side of the table on the motor side is flat until it approached the cut out and carrying on to the other side has a mound?

Overall i feel that when these saws moved production to France ,even if the casting was the same, the overall fitting out of the parts wasnt done to as high a tolerance. I used to have a Mikron Swiss metal lathe and the tolerances on this and parts from different machine which fitted perfectly was amazing.

 

[bob531]

Some further photos!

 

[jimi43]

Hi Bob

Just one comment on your excellent refurbishment...the wheel tyres look almost perfect and I think they should be crowned, that is to say that the centre is higher than the edges which allows the blade to ride up or down depending on the adjustment to get the tracking just right. The idea is that the blade will find it's best rest position riding on the "slope" of the tyre and as you adjust the bias you will see it ride further in or out.

I think the wheels need to be coplanar to ensure the best tracking and clearly the tensioner is affecting the bias which would normally be on another control. I think if you search through the setup information on the Yahoo group you will find others with similar problems and possible solutions...or just ask a general question and I am sure you will get the answers you require from other members.

The INCA range is exceedingly popular in the USA...European makers of this type being considered the Rolls Royce of machine tools. I would definitely join the group...I have learned a lot from them.

Great photos by the way! =D>

Cheers

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Just a thought - i don't have an Inca (they keep dissappearing :shock: ) - but I'm wondering about the vibrations. Sounds like every step you have reduced them, but is it likely the source is back at the beginning? I mean it won't be the motor, is unlikely to be the drive pulley, is likely to be one or both of the wheels, and is not likely to be the blade. I would be tempted to get both wheels off and rig up a simple way of checking static balance*. 2 horizontal blade edges (rules maybe), a dummy shaft. If you can find any imbalance it would be easy to correct to a fairly tight tolerance. Dynamic balancing is obviously not a simple option at all but I imagine at these low speeds it won't really matter. If you did find static imbalance then fixing that would surely make a difference to vibration at source, which is the best place to get rid of it. Noting that this needs to be with the outer bands in place and if they are going to be replaced you would need to do that first, then dress them maybe... then check balance. I have seen them dressed before with a shop-made profiled abrasive block firmly mounted by the wheel - it must not be able to move at all, and is profiled to give the camber Jim refers to.
*if the wheels run very free on their bearings, you may be able to check in situ? If you got mega-fussy I wonder if the local tyre place could check dynamic balance - would need some contraption to mount the wheels to their machinery though :lol:

p.s. are you happy the shimming of lower wheel has not affected how well centred on shaft it is? - even a very slight error there could result in some vibration I think?? Maybe the shimming has caused some misalignment - where you would see run-out at the wheel edge as it turns?

 

[Steve Blackdog]

Douglas

The inca euro 205 is direct drive, so i don't think one can rule out looking at the motor.

Steve

 

[bob531]

Hi Bob

Just one comment on your excellent refurbishment...the wheel tyres look almost perfect and I think they should be crowned, that is to say that the centre is higher than the edges which allows the blade to ride up or down depending on the adjustment to get the tracking just right. The idea is that the blade will find it's best rest position riding on the "slope" of the tyre and as you adjust the bias you will see it ride further in or out.

I think the wheels need to be coplanar to ensure the best tracking and clearly the tensioner is affecting the bias which would normally be on another control. I think if you search through the setup information on the Yahoo group you will find others with similar problems and possible solutions...or just ask a general question and I am sure you will get the answers you require from other members.

The INCA range is exceedingly popular in the USA...European makers of this type being considered the Rolls Royce of machine tools. I would definitely join the group...I have learned a lot from them.

Great photos by the way! =D>

Cheers

Jim

HI Jim ,the tyres on incas are flat not crowned, these ones are sloping slightly to the outside probably due to the blades riding on one side of the tyres all the time,which is why i mentioned maybe reversing the tyres so the unworn/compressed area is at the back.But maybe if i did this then the blade might ride to the back instead.
I tried getting the wheels co-planar but as i mentioned the top of the lower wheel remains further back ,almost as if the motor spindle was biased off centre (direct drive).
One thing ive also wondered is many mention the band blade moving to the lowest part of the wheel,if this is so, why are crowned tyres like my Jet able to carry the blade on the top of the crown (the widest circumference)?

 

[bob531]

Just a thought - i don't have an Inca (they keep dissappearing :shock: ) - but I'm wondering about the vibrations. Sounds like every step you have reduced them, but is it likely the source is back at the beginning? I mean it won't be the motor, is unlikely to be the drive pulley, is likely to be one or both of the wheels, and is not likely to be the blade. I would be tempted to get both wheels off and rig up a simple way of checking static balance*. 2 horizontal blade edges (rules maybe), a dummy shaft. If you can find any imbalance it would be easy to correct to a fairly tight tolerance. Dynamic balancing is obviously not a simple option at all but I imagine at these low speeds it won't really matter. If you did find static imbalance then fixing that would surely make a difference to vibration at source, which is the best place to get rid of it. Noting that this needs to be with the outer bands in place and if they are going to be replaced you would need to do that first, then dress them maybe... then check balance. I have seen them dressed before with a shop-made profiled abrasive block firmly mounted by the wheel - it must not be able to move at all, and is profiled to give the camber Jim refers to.
*if the wheels run very free on their bearings, you may be able to check in situ? If you got mega-fussy I wonder if the local tyre place could check dynamic balance - would need some contraption to mount the wheels to their machinery though :lol:

p.s. are you happy the shimming of lower wheel has not affected how well centred on shaft it is? - even a very slight error there could result in some vibration I think?? Maybe the shimming has caused some misalignment - where you would see run-out at the wheel edge as it turns?

It could be the motor but it seems to work fine with no blade on and the bottom wheel is just spinning.
Although i was puzzled that although Leroy-Somer motors are mentioned in the catalogue for the larger 260 model,why the fit of the wheel on the spindle was so bad ,and i mean bad!
I may try balancing the wheels at some time ,see when i have the time.
Yes as i mentioned due to the shimming the wheel improved alot and im confident i got it even all around . The wheel was so slack on the shaft it wobbled around in all directions when shaken.The shim only looks a little rough in the photo due to the shim sticking out slightly at the end and i had to file it flat with the end of the spindle.

 

[bob531]

Douglas

The inca euro 205 is direct drive, so i don't think one can rule out looking at the motor.

Steve

Dont know ,i cant figure out why when the wheel is mounted on the bottom shaft it tilts in very slightly out of co-planar with the rest. I did notice when you tightened the grub screw the wheel edge seemed to move slightly???
And again why was the fit so loose,the lower wheel doesnt spin on the shaft so there cant be any wear! Motor possibly a replacement with a slightly different shaft diameter?? or wheel bored to wrong diameter?

 

[Steve Blackdog]

I seem to have sorted the tracking well enough to cut an old piece of scrap into a see through veneer. My vernier callipers tell me this is between .8 - 1.2 mm. I could do better with more effort.

See photos

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Very nice cut. I have found that the Inca (with a tuff saw blade) cuts through thicknesses of hard wood that it is not supposed to be able to cope with, without drifting. I just installed a blade and tightened the fence and got dead straight cuts from day one . I used the fence from my Inca circular saw as the bandsaw I got didn't have one and it was perfectly square and needed no adjustment. I checked the wheels for coplanar and they appear to be way out, the blade runs on different positions on the top and bottom wheel and it does not appear to make the slightest difference to the accuracy of the cut. I remembering worrying about this until I realised that if it works why try and fix it.

 

[Krysstel]

Hi Steve and Bob

This other thread about Inca bandsaws may help, or at least confirm, some of the issues you've both been having. https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/inca-bandsaw-t43150.html?hilit=inca

Regarding the wheels being co-planar, or not.
This seems to be a recuring problem that several, including me, have had. As mentioned in the other thread I fixed this completely by shimming out the bottom wheel - although I didn't have any problems with the wheel also wobbling.

Bob mentioned a third door/casing knob.
My saw is an older Swiss made one with the switches (ridiculously) placed on the back of the machine. The stud for the third, middle knob is therefore where your switches are sighted. Seems likely that when they relocated the switches on the later (French ?) models they didn't bother about making new casings for the machines but just simply dropped the third fixing point.

I have now had my saw running perfectly for a couple of months now and have had no new problems with the tracking or anything else. With a 1/2" Tuffsaw blade it cuts everything I've put through it true and straight every time and with zero blade drift. In fact I've become so confident about the saw's abilities that I'm planning on building a log-sawing jig after easter and pushing the saw to it's limits with a 5/8" resaw blade in it.

The only minor issue I've got with the saw is that the table is not completely flat and really very small. Would it be sacrilege if I replaced it with a larger, home made MDF table ? :shock:
Also, although my extractor does a reasonable job there's still quite a lot of dust that remains inside the casing. I'm therefore looking at adding an extra extraction point through the removable plastic casing. Has anyone else tried this ? I'm a bit unsure where the best place to go in is.

Mark

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Yes I took the plunge and butchered my Inca bandsaw to control the sawdust spraying tendencies.
I felt a bit bad about it at first, but once I got it cutting again I was very pleased with the results.
Pictures tell the story. I also have an elbow piece under the table which the blade runs through to collect at source.
Just get a little dust on the table now when starting a cut.

Hope this helps

 

[Krysstel]

Yes I took the plunge and butchered my Inca bandsaw to control the sawdust spraying tendencies.
I felt a bit bad about it at first, but once I got it cutting again I was very pleased with the results.
Pictures tell the story. I also have an elbow piece under the table which the blade runs through to collect at source.
Just get a little dust on the table now when starting a cut.

Hope this helps

Glad to see someone else has done this before I hack a hole in mine :wink:
Looks like you've gone in at the bottom right hand corner of the casing. Correct ?

Mark

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Almost right Mark. I went in slap bang in the middle. 100mm drainage pipe fitting. It glued to the inside of the door with a hard polystrene adhesive. I just added the bolts for good measure (in hindsight not actually necessary) counter sunk heads of course. There is a lip in the side of the collar that prevents the extraction pipe accidentally straying in too deep and snaging the lower wheel. My saw cover has a couple of spacers on the inside right which is why I decided to cut the whole in the middle.

 

[Krysstel]

OK, I'll do something similar but probably only 2" since I already have a 4" hose sucking from the standard 2,5" port at the front of the saw. I'll tee off the 4" hose to two smaller, 1 x 2" + 1 x 2,5". Will probably work much better since my extractor isn't working as efficiently as it could with the reduction from 4" to 2,5".

Mark

 

[condeesteso]

Another one cropped up, a Euro 205:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280857632704? ... 528wt_1355

Looks nice and straight. Not for me this one - I have found an interesting precision bandsaw and will report later :wink:

Inca question - does the number denote the wheel dia in mm?? Or is it more random than that?

 

[JakeS]

Inca question - does the number denote the wheel dia in mm?? Or is it more random than that?

One wonders; 205mm is more or less 8", so it's a tempting thought.

On the other hand, 203mm is the closest integer millimetre measurement to 8", and the stated max. cut width on the auction is 208mm, so it's not so clear-cut...

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

The 205 has a:
table with a 320 x 320mm surface area
the table is 370mm high
maximum height of cut is 155mm
throat depth is 260mm
wheel diametre is 280mm
blade length is 1850mm
weight 14Kg

So isn't obvious why it is called a 205?
I have also seen this model referred to as a 260 on the American Inca enthusiasts forum, which is supposed to indicate the throat depth in mm.

 

[JakeS]

So isn't obvious why it is called a 205?

It's nearly the average between the throat and height? ;-)