In praise of the 2-part cap.

[condeesteso]

Just a quick observation and only my views of course, although I will support those views with reasoning etc. Here we can share practical experiences.
There's been chat here lately about getting the cap iron down close, and elsewhere it has been an active topic for a while.
I just re-tuned an old Record No6 that has the Stay-set 2-part cap, and I wanted to get it fine for some tricky panel work ahead.
The iron edge is easy and quick, but the cap needs close attention when getting it down this close to the edge - in my own experience the cap must bed very well (perfectly if that is possible) otherwise tiny fragments will find there way between the 2 steels, and that starts a progressive build-up.
I'd not handled a 2-part cap for a while but knew I liked them. Mine is in good nick, but I spent maybe 15 minutes flatting the inner (mating) edge, down to 1 micron film. I used the film here because it is the closest to really flat that I have. I had previously raised the cap leading edge to around 60 degrees anyway, but I polished that also - I admit I am not convinced that matters or it is even better. Jury out on that point.
First really good thing about the 2-part cap. It is really solid so this kind of tuning is easy and visibly effective. The second thing is the standard single cap (like on older Stanleys and Records) is quite thin and has to bend to clamp down. As it bends the leading edge creeps forward a tiny amount. This only really matters when you are setting the cap right down very close, and I have known the cap edge creep over the iron cutting edge - not good at all. If the edge does not creep it must mean the cap isn't bending so it is tired.
Time spent was worth it - this is just softwood - but I always note the shavings come off straight when it's about right. Curls are a sign I'm not there yet. I see this also with my woodie jacks - hit the sweet spot and the shavings come out straight and poke you in the eye. As here, this has a slight camber and is probably taking a few thou off, not superfine. I refuse to go around measuring shavings, but they do tell me a bit about how the plane is feeling.

 

[Argus]

Agreed.

I have some of these and whilst they can be challenging to set up so that the mating point is dead flat along the width of the blade, they work extremely well and take a lot of fuss out of sharpening.
In reality, the fettling process is no more complex than it is for a well set up one-piece cap iron.

But I expect there are some who think the opposite, but it's a personal opinion.

All best

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have two "Stay Sets" on bench planes and like them considerably. I prepare the lead edge in the method David Charlesworth suggested in his books: flattening for tight fit at the extreme lead edge, and polishing the top.

Where the real advantage to the two piece cap iron is, is for those that free hand hone. I can pop the blade assembly out of the plane, give a few swipes on the stone, pop the lower cap back on and be back at it lickety-split!

 

[D_W]

Tony has the only two in Pennsylvania, I think. I've never seen one. I'm still curious about the length of iron removed on each honing, but am waiting for someone else to put calipers to their sharp edge to measure.

 

[Argus]

............... I'm still curious about the length of iron removed on each honing.........................

A few tens of microns, unless you go mad rubbing through all the grits from extra rough down.

Used on European Oak, my blades go through a 25micron fine plate first, followed by about 10 microns, then the strop with carvers rouge to get rid of the wire, then it's back to work.

All up, I get time out from a minute.

 

[D_W]

I will probably track an iron to see what I remove (it's minimal, I don't go more coarse than a washita that's settled in, and I don't fully grind off an established bevel - presume that for people using a dry grinder, that's about standard) after about 5 sharpenings. It'll be easier to get an accurate measurement.

 

[Argus]

One unstated point in all this that may have been overlooked, is that using a two-part cap-iron presumes that you are honing by hand.

The size, shape and position of the rear part of the iron in relation to the tip of the blade means that very few, if any, honing jigs will accept it without some compromises.

 

[Trafalgar]

Yes, certain settings produce a straighter chip these 'bacon strip' shavings are supposed to be indicative of something. I think I posted pictures here a while back of having produced some on tiger maple. That said, I've also found that by simply varying the speed of the plane pass, with the plane at the same settings that produced straight shavings, will make the shavings curl again. So, it seems related to factors other than strictly the plane's settings.

There are gobs of videos of very fine furnituremakers using hand planes and every shaving is a curler. Surface looks just fine as well. Don't get too caught up in it. The shavings go in the waste bin.

 

[condeesteso]

There are gobs of videos of very fine furnituremakers using hand planes and every shaving is a curler. Surface looks just fine as well. Don't get too caught up in it. The shavings go in the waste bin.

I didn't intend to give any impression at all that I was caught up in any aspect of this. I am about the last person that needs telling that the shavings go in the bin. If you knew me you would know that. And your first statement above is inaccurate.

 

[Trafalgar]

It's interesting to produce shavings that lie flat, but in the end fleeting for me, but with thankfully no real change in the surface quality. The ability to do so varies with the pressure on the plane, the speed at which the pass is made, and not least of all the grain of the wood.

... just in case there is somebody scratching their head wondering if they should be able to do this pass after pass, day in and day out, at all times and places and in all materials.

This gentleman is reputed to know something about planes and making fine furniture. Might want to ignore the curly shavings he's making here:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-gui ... iques.aspx

Website:

http://garretthack.com/

 

[David C]

Douglas,

Is your fixed plate flat please?

I have quite an old record SS and the fixed plate is very hollow, in both directions, to the extent that it alters the shape of the blade.

David

 

[condeesteso]

David, I must say I have not inspected it closely (the upper fixed section?). I will look tomorrow but I am assuming it must be pretty flat otherwise mating the lower section to iron back would have raised an issue. But, don't know and will take a look.

 

[David C]

Thanks,

David

 

[custard]

It's interesting to produce shavings that lie flat, but in the end fleeting for me, but with thankfully no real change in the surface quality. The ability to do so varies with the pressure on the plane, the speed at which the pass is made, and not least of all the grain of the wood.

... just in case there is somebody scratching their head wondering if they should be able to do this pass after pass, day in and day out, at all times and places and in all materials.

This gentleman is reputed to know something about planes and making fine furniture. Might want to ignore the curly shavings he's making here:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-gui ... iques.aspx

Website:

http://garretthack.com/

I've thought about Garret Hack a few times as this discussion has evolved across several posts. I've met him, seen him make furniture, and I've been on one of his courses. If I remember correctly he's fairly open minded about plane choices, but seems to personally prefer a low angle, bevel up plane with a traditional carbon steel iron, honed freehand to incorporate a very shallow camber. Wherever possible he'll finish straight from the plane and then use a light cut of shellac, so light that it doesn't require any subsequent sanding.

What's interesting though is a point that's been touched on a few times during recent posts, tool choices are inextricably linked to the timbers you use and the furniture you make. Again, if I recall correctly, Garrett Hack chiefly uses plain simple timbers harvested either on his farm or in the immediate locale. Yes, he'll jazz up his pieces with exotics like Ebony, but these are generally tiny scraps used as accent pieces. More typically he's using mild working hardwoods without any particularly striking figure or grain; the furniture's presence and impact being derived from elegant core design accentuated by fairly restrained decorative statements.

I don't dispute for one second that he's a superb craftsman (he's one of the very few of the well known media presence woodworkers who isn't scared of picking up a tool and tackling an impromptu and unrehearsed furniture making job in public. David Charlesworth by the way is another member of that vanishingly small group who combine a well known name with genuine skill and experience) however, any conclusions about his tools or techniques can only be understood in the context of the timbers he uses and the furniture he builds.

 

[Trafalgar]

If you visit his site, garretthack.com, you will see some fairly figured woods being used. Just stay on the opening page and watch the Flash presentation.

In the short FW video I linked to, he's using a regular bevel down plane but on what does appear to be amenable cherry.

Here is an article he did several years ago on what was at the time apparently his favorite finish - a blend of spar varnish, natural turpentine, and boiled linseed oil:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/a ... apply.aspx

The full article requires a membership but the teaser language is sufficient to make the point. He may no longer use this finish. I do not know. I assume he would use another finish if he didn't want the ambering the above formulation imparts.

Hack on scrapers: http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-gui ... apers.aspx

He uses them for something, I guess.

 

[custard]

If you visit his site, garretthack.com, you will see some fairly figured woods being used.

I don't doubt it. I'm sure if he had a nice board of rippled whatever he's unlikely to put it on the firewood pile.

But taken in the round that's not what he's about.

If I read his style correctly (and hey, maybe I'm misreading it completely!) he's about turning homely, local timbers into really special pieces of furniture. He sets about achieving this with careful craftsmanship, elegant and harmonious designs, and a restrained use of decorative and playful flourishes. Certainly when I've met him in the UK he was pretty forthright about advocating unloved local timbers sourced within a ten or twenty mile radius...not a message that appeals to me personally but I can certainly understand and respect the sentiments!

 

[Trafalgar]

I suppose that's one characterization, but I wouldn't call the woods he uses homely other than in the sense they are of the area around which he lives.

When I look at his work I don't see something that makes me think to myself -- wow, great design too bad he used that particular wood (or woods).

Take a moment to visit his site. It's worth five or ten minutes I promise.

 

[AndyT]

Interesting as Garret Hack's work is, let's lurch back onto topic. I'd like to pick up on the points/questions raised by David and Argus about flatness and honing guides.

I've got two stayset cap irons; an older Record one I use on a 4½ and a newer Clifton one, no 4 size.

Flatness

Looking at the Record, and testing the upper part with a believed-straight engineer's square, at the very centre I can just get a 6 thou feeler gauge in:

The gap is central and symmetrical. I imagine it's by design, as contact on both sides of the iron is more stable than contact at one point would be.

Taking the lower part, I cannot get anything in, or see light through, as shown in this photo of it without a feeler gauge:

On the Clifton cap iron, the upper part has a very slight gap - I can just get my smallest (1½ thou) feeler gauge underneath at the centre:

The lower part which bears on the end of the plane iron is what I would class as flat - I can't see light under it and shavings do not get caught.

Honing Guides

I would imagine that the "Eclipse" honing guide is probably the most widespread - and you can fit a plane iron into it, with the upper part of the stayset cap still attached:

You can also use the Record honing guide:

I hope these observations are useful to anyone wondering about this design.

 

[David C]

Andy,

That is very interesting, thank you.

Mine is also hollow by 6 thou in the width and seven thou in the length.

It is an old one with RECORD STAY-SET t CAP IRON at top. PATENT No 362743 in the middle and KEEP GROOVES CLEAN at the bottom.

It is nicely made, unlike some of the Clifton ones which were clearly distorted when stamped out.

The similarity of the figures makes me suspect the concavity was deliberate?

best wishes,
David

 

[Trafalgar]

Interesting that the larger, mass manufacturer seemed to nail the specs and the smaller boutique provider could not/did not. Maybe a lesson in there and why some of the old planes work just fine, if not better than fine?