In defence of the silent, or - my excuse for not commenting

[nev]

WARNING! long winded and rambling.

In a recent post it was noted that so few had commented on a posting/ achievement by another forum member. At the risk of digging a large hole for myself, i would like to put forward my reasons for not commenting on what i thought was fantastic piece of work.
I am not the most eloquent of people so please bear this in mind when reading.

When i started turning a year or so ago anything that came off the lathe in one piece and a different shape to when it went on was considered FAB! both by me and anyone i presented it to (ok, the wife and neighbours). as time and skills progressed it became apparent that my previous creations were perhaps not so fab, but they were part of (an ongoing) learning curve and i could see that.
As I produced more and more items the missus etc. would still wow at them, but I could now see tool marks, uneven curves rough end grain etc. It was about this time that I found and joined the forum.
I was amazed at what could be produced on the lathe (and still am) and apart from saying wow, super, brilliant etc didnt think that I had anything to offer comment-wise. so I didn't.
As i plucked up the courage to post items for comment, any comment in the positive was met with a cheesy grin. i was well chuffed and still am. The height of my well-chuffedness was when someone renowned for superb finishing complemented me on the finish on one of my items. If i receive a comment from someone new to the WOWTurning I am still chuffed when they say 'Wow! I'd be proud to make something like that.' even though I (and other more experienced turners) can see the tool marks or poor shaping or whatever.
start digging
What I am trying to say is that apart from general superlatives I do not feel comfortable/ qualified to comment on something waaay out of my league but I do feel comfortable and able to comment on items created by those new to the sport and those I consider contemporarys (if thats the right word) and those I am hot on the heels of.
keep digging
So when Artists (for that is what they are!) like Mr Sneddon, Mr Sanger et al show us their latest creations I feel a little unqualified to comment, and leave it to their contemporarys to say what they think. Everything they put their name to is a quality item, and I do not believe that they are posted here to have a hundred 'brilliant!' pat on the backs from less creative, less talented people LIKE ME, but to inspire and show us what can be done if we put our heart and soul into it and maybe get some feedback from their contemporarys.
stop digging
Maybe others feel similarly? i dont know, but for my part, the lack of a comment is not an indication of what one thinks of an item, just an indication that I do not feel qualified to comment.
or i didnt see it.

thanks
P.S. congrats on the publication Lee.
Havent got my copy yet

 

[Silverbirch]

Don't do yourself down, Nev! You've posted some first class stuff on here.
I wouldn't agree that you, or anyone else, is not qualified to comment on items put forward for c&c. After all, we chose items for our home, our car, clothes etc. partly on the basis of their visual appeal, without necessarily having any expert knowledge about how they were designed or created.
One of the aspects of turning that appeals to me is that anyone can get involved. It's one of those hobbies where you aren't't judged by the amount of money you've spent on it or the awards and honours you've achieved. Likewise, I believe that anyone's comments are as valid anyone else's. I'm sure that anyone who is showing their work on a forum such as this does so in the full knowledge that most users are amateurs, many of whom would regard themselves as not particularly skilled, yet presumably they feel that comments from such people are worth listening to?
As regards why so few comments tend to be posted, for my own part, I won't necessarily comment if all I have to say is "very nice" or words to that effect, especially if several others have already done so. Threads like that, (not usually a feature of this forum), can be just tedious to read through.It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy or appreciate the piece that was posted, nor learn something worthwhile from viewing it.
To finish, I made this post because I had a bit of time on my hands, and saw that there had not yet been any other comments saying much the same as I was thinking. I'm sure the same applies to many people when they look at work which has been posted.

Ian

 

[John. B]

Nev, don't do yourself down.

I don't think one's skill as a turner or finisher is relevant. You as a forum member is being asked, "do you like this?"

and as a forum member, good or poor at turning, have every right to put his or her opinion. This does not mean that

it gives you the right to be rude or offensive. You are being asked "Is it for you?". If it has the wow factor, say wow, if you

think I don't care for the finial, or I prefer to have a smaller base or the top is too small. It is YOUR opinion! You're not saying

I don't like you or you are a rotten turner you are saying noo, I don't really care for that. When someone has asked for critique

an honest answer is ALWAYS sought. It's how we improve ourselves.

Sorry to ramble on, but that's my opinion.

edit. PS I agree wholeheartedly with Ian.

John. B

 

[nev]

cheers guys. It was not meant to be self deprecating, I know I'm brill :shock:
I was just trying to say that not responding or posting is not necessarily negative, and just trying to give my reasoning behind it :? and at the same time saying there are many different 'classes' of turners with differing reasons for posting their items. I am of course guessing at this cos i am not many different people (most of the time :x ), and neither am i, or me! hence the waffle trying to explain.

I guess i just thought Marks comment, whilst true, and hopefully general and not aimed at anyone in particular, a little brutal and wanted to respond without starting an argument or hijacking Lees thread.
My apologies to Mark, if this is taken in any way as offensive or argumentative, its not meant to be.
I guess i felt i just had to stand up for my 'community' as i now feel i am part of here on the forum.

sorry to waffle again
Im not called grumpy for nothing you know :wink:

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

I use quite a lot of online communities, and find that even a comment of "nice" or "I like that" or "well done, but not for me" is fine. We all have different tastes, and while I don't feel confident enough to comment on the technical side of things I do comment - especially if I like a particular shape or form.
I'm a bit lazy though, and sometimes just can't muster the energy to read all the posts and comment.

 

[CHJ]

As a long time viewer of this and a couple of other forums I rarely comment on what I personally see as good but no better than I expected from a particular turner.
If something shouts to me or I see a style shift that causes an immediate reaction or appreciation I try and pass a constructive comment.

Likewise with my constant posting of the mundane bits and pieces that come out of my shop, as long as the view count climbs I perceive that someone is interested enough to look and hope they give someone some inspiration.

The fact that currently out of 10 items posted, 8 members actually pass comment, could be taken as very disheartening but the fact that there have been some 827 views I take as meaning something must be of interest.

 

[skeetoids]

Hi Folks,

This apears to be a nice, open and honest thread so with that in mind here's my thoughts on it.

We are all equal, in whatever we do! :lol:

I am by no means an expert or an experienced woodturner, for those of you not awaire I have been truning for 2 years this very month. I say that to let those people who have been turning less or the same feel welcome and cherished just as I hope I am too.

I have had a different path to many others and find that given my current circumstances have been putting a lot of energy, time and committment into my turning. It's taken me in all sorts of directions and I've met some wonderful people.

The reason I post is because I feel a responsibility to share what I make with this community, afterall it is about the turnings. Sure it's nice to talk about tools and wood and other things but I like seeing all the work and feel I can make a decent contribution.

In terms of making my own comments....I don't care who they are if I want to say something I do! Take Chas for example, I told him a long time ago that I regard his work as being some of the best finished work in the business and I meant it! But I don't always comment on Chas's work, why? Well, like Chas says himself sometimes it's maybe not worthy of comment. It doesn't mean that I or Chas or anyone else thinks less of a persons work, just sometimes it's not worth commenting on.

Plus, we miss out on some 90% of communication by choosing to speak on a forum. I bet if we where all in a pub together talking about turning it would end up in a lock in and be one of the best nights of our lives, and I don't even drink! :lol:

Aw the best,

Lee.

P.S. If I don't get any positive comments you'll all have to eat HAGGIS!!! :lol:

 

[CHJ]

....P.S. If I don't get any positive comments you'll all have to eat HAGGIS!!!

Love it, as long as it's come from a decent Butchers like Dalbeattie Fine Foods in Castle Douglas, the best I've ever tasted.

 

[nev]

....P.S. If I don't get any positive comments you'll all have to eat HAGGIS!!!

Love it, as long as it's come from a decent Butchers like Dalbeattie Fine Foods in Castle Douglas, the best I've ever tasted.

I think they're the wild, free range ones, much tastier than the farmed ones

 

[Jonzjob]

Is that a clockwise or an anticlockwise one you have there Nev? I prefer the clockwise ones personally :mrgreen: Easier to catch when you have anticlock dogs

I have been turning for about 15 years now and I fell into it. I am by no means any kind of expert and mostly self taught with all of the bad habits in the book I should think? But I do know what I like and especially if it is something from a new turner and I like what I see then I will try to comment on it if I think I can help that person?

I also agree with Ian that you should not put yourself down. We are all learning and when I stop learning it will be the day they screw the lid on the box i'm in...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

NOTHING OF ANY IMPORTANCE TO SAY!

 

[Alli]

I am a member of another forum to do with electrics, they have a 'thanks' button and a 'like' button that you can toggle and it registers your vote which is displayed under the post in question. I don't know how easy/hard it is to add things like this to a forum, but maybe this could allow you to show your appreciation without comment!

 

[boysie39]

For what its worth MY reasons for not commenting on subjects posted on the forum.
I am a hobby woodturner who when I am able love to put a piece of wood on a lathe and try to make something that is pleasing to my eye. If I think its a nice piece I will endevor to put it on the forum for others to view, which is not very often.But if someone wants to pass a comment so be it.
In the four years That I have been useing the forum at times pieces have been shown that are way above my understanding of woodturning, They have a cultural aspect to them which I have never learned one that comes to mind is Ying and Yang not sure if this is the right pair and others which I have no idea who or what their imput into woodturning is. I like looking at these pieces but dont wish to comment on some culture I have'nt a clue about.
I hope these few words do not offend anyone they are not intended to, it is me admitting publicly that I am abit on the thick side, but as I have managed for over 70 years without knowing about them and am still above ground albeit just about I am happy with me lot.
To each his own !!

 

[Silverbirch]

Hi Eugene,
I think that whether a maker claims his or her piece is based on Ancient Mongolian philosophy or traditional Scottish haggis forms and textures is largely irrelevant. While such information may be interesting and informative, it has little to do with whether the bowl, vessel, sculpture etc has appeal to the viewer. If it's ugly, dumpy or badly finished, no amount of verbal dressing up will change that. Some of the more innovative work can convey a message to the viewer beyond the actual appearance of the piece, but we can still judge it for what it appears to be to us.
That's my entirely unqualified view, anyhow :wink:

Ian

 

[boysie39]

Ian, if you had posted your post earlier I would not have had let everyone know how thick I was. That is what I was trying to say
And before that quasi French/Brit. Jonzjob comes on saying he knew I was thick anyway, :evil: let me say that I have had a taste of Ying / Yang before. It was a resturant on the Costa Del Sol owned by a South African ex jockey and I had many a nice meal and a wonderful drinking session during the 80s :roll: :roll: I think :?:

 

[Silverbirch]

:lol: :lol:

 

[gnu]

I gave up with this forum a long time ago because if you post anything it quickly disappears off the page whereas if it was organised ie a gallery section, competition section, technical section etc etc and newbie type questions like other forums then more people might stay with it. As for critiques and coments most turners are not going to be my customers some I'm not interested the opinions of other woodturners. In fact the mindset the average woodturners has been so distorted by a small coterie of demonstators and opinion formers as to be worse than useless. Put you work out there on a market stall or craft stall in front of the general public and you will soon find out where you are at.

 

[gus3049]

I gave up with this forum a long time ago

How come you are here then? :?

 

[Silverbirch]

I think there is indeed something to be said for having a gallery section here.
However,

I'm not interested the opinions of other woodturners.

So what makes you think other woodturners should be interested in yours?

Ian

 

[Philip Streeting]

To describe the mindset of the average turner who visits this Forum as 'worse than useless' says more about the writer than the readers here.

Gnu, I am pleased that you are so self-assured about your work and that you have reached the point in your development where comment and critique are irrelevant to you.

If you feel it is right to move on and contribute to other Forums where you can be of more constructive and positive help to those learning new skills - bon voyage.

Meanwhile the rest of us can carry on learning from each other.

Best wishes
Phil

P.S. For those who wish to try Craft Fairs, learn more about the commercial side of woodturning and design opportunities this is a helpful site to visit:
http://colewoodturners.co.uk/Default.aspx
Lots of ideas and pricing guidelines from Lawrence to be found here.