Improved hand tool myth.

[Jacob]

..

regarding that video - could a router plane be used to do hinges?

Doubt it! It's very fast with a chisel.

 

[MikeK]

regarding that video - could a router plane be used to do hinges?

I don't know how easy it would be to use a router plane on door hinges because there's not a lot of adjacent surface area for the plane base.

 

[Valhalla]

Jesus, the list is endless

Well he was a carpenter

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Allegedly.

 

[mark w]

Construction and materials of the modern premium planes has improved - and, conversely, construction and materials of modern non-premium planes has decreased - however, once tuned up, the performance of an old Stanley and a new LN is quite capable of being identical. Just yesterday I tuned the chipbreaker of an old English #3 (owned by my late FIL), sharpened the hand-beaten Clifton blade, and it took the sweetest shavings into the grain of some interlocked Jarrah. A new premium plane would not have done better.

The point being, not really an advance in the tool, per se, just materials and attention to detail.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek, I agree, undoubtedly David Charlesworth proved this, however, out of the box, a new veritas or Lie Nielsen would be better than a new or indeed vintage un-tuned plane, a definite improvement in my opinion.

 

[Ttrees]

Hi Derek, I agree, undoubtedly David Charlesworth proved this, however, out of the box, a new veritas or Lie Nielsen would be better than a new or indeed vintage un-tuned plane, a definite improvement in my opinion.

For long grain shooting long thin panels often, then I'd probably agree, but I don't do regularly,
and only have Baileys with non square sides, but can use the bench to find small discrepancies.
Perhaps constantly planing very thin long stock which won't stand on edge might make it notable?
Derek might be one to answer this.

 

[hlvd]

This is an impressive boast and ignores the capability of experienced joiners from making their own cutters, as Jacob often states he does. Up the ante to 200 feet of the same historic moulding and how do you think you would fare with hand tools versus modern tools and methods?

Here's a video from Bradshaw Joinery comparing speeds of hanging a door using a chisel method on one and a router with a jig for the other.



Spoiler alert: The router, including time to make the jig, was faster than the chisel method by nearly five minutes. With a jig already in hand, the router would be about 11 minutes faster than the chisel method.

I’d still choose the hand plane, chisel and router plane method. Less noise and mess if you’re working in someone’s house.

How’s that cordless router going to sink hinge recesses in rebated casings?

 

[Daniel2]

Sorry jacob , looking back through, it was daniel2 who said that.....

Yes, it was indeed me that threw the cat amongst the pigeons.
I knew what I meant to say, but it didn't come across as I intended.

 

[Molynoox]

I’d still choose the hand plane, chisel and router plane method. Less noise and mess if you’re working in someone’s house.

How’s that cordless router going to sink hinge recesses in rebated casings?

you could put a little 20 or 30mm wide infill in place to support the router base and then use the jig as normal other than using a longer depth setting on the router bit?
extra faff. but if you have more than one to do then it pays for itself in effort saved.
If you are doing a lot of them as part of your job then I guess you could keep a small selection of infill sizes in your jig box?

I agree with @hlvd anyway, chisel makes less mess and noise and always the winner for me, but I'm thinking of the average carpenter doing this stuff a lot - the extra few minutes gained every door would really add up so I imagine they are pretty determined to work out the quickest way.

Martin

 

[Adam W.]

This is an impressive boast and ignores the capability of experienced joiners from making their own cutters, as Jacob often states he does. Up the ante to 200 feet of the same historic moulding and how do you think you would fare with hand tools versus modern tools and methods?

Here's a video from Bradshaw Joinery comparing speeds of hanging a door using a chisel method on one and a router with a jig for the other.



Spoiler alert: The router, including time to make the jig, was faster than the chisel method by nearly five minutes. With a jig already in hand, the router would be about 11 minutes faster than the chisel method.

Of course larger quantities are quicker by machine, I don't doubt that and I never implied that I would be quicker on 200' either.

I can start working straight away without making anything. By the time my 6' is done, the joiner making the cutters is still going to be making the cutters and he'll never get an exact match either.

For clarity, I'm talking about 6" wide or more, complex raking mouldings like these and I can make them properly out of a 1" board.

 

[Jacob]

Of course larger quantities are quicker by machine, I don't doubt that and I never implied it either.

I can start working straight away without making anything. By the time my 6' is done, the joiner making the cutters is still making the cutters and he'll never get an exact match either.

Exactly. Except it isn't difficult to get an exact match with spindle cutters. It's in the end process of offering up and fine adjusting.

 

[HOJ]

I’d still choose the hand plane, chisel and router plane method. Less noise and mess if you’re working in someone’s house.

On the subject of hinge setting I use a LN 40B butt mortice plane, made for the job.

 

[paulrbarnard]

On the subject of hinge setting I use a LN 40B butt mortice plane, made for the job.

View attachment 151290

I’ve always wanted one of those but for the five or six doors I hang in a decade I can’t really justify it

 

[mark w]

For long grain shooting long thin panels often, then I'd probably agree, but I don't do regularly,
and only have Baileys with non square sides, but can use the bench to find small discrepancies.
Perhaps constantly planing very thin long stock which won't stand on edge might make it notable?
Derek might be one to answer this.

I'm not sure why my post was quoted by you, I don't see the connection between my post and yours?
An accurately made plane will improve all planing situations, the thickness of the timber is irrelevant, however, the different methods used to plane very thin and thick stock is relevant.

 

[Ttrees]

@mark w
Squaring plane sides up and making them less structurally sound, isn't something I'd want to do to a vintage plane,
so in that way the premium manufacturers made the biggest improvement there.

Could'a said the likes of Lie-Nielsen are made from practically unbreakable ductile iron too,
that's an improvement also, though never held one apart from a little plane, so can't comment on the weight aspect.
could lap the bejasus of it if bothered, I suppose, so the last bit might be crossed out for someone
possibly, i.e find one used with damaged sole, bit of a long shot, fair enough.

Little bit of fettling is neither here nor there for most jobs,
One would have to be real pushed for time if that's a concern.

Regarding a tuned up Bailey vs something on ebay which has light haze of rust and potential i.e with good pictures.
I'd not personally consider any difference in their value really, and only bettered by premium tools for something quite specific like the long shooting.

Appologies if I took you up wrong
Tom

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It makes no difference whether a plane has perfectly square sides or not, you compensate with lateral adjustment.

 

[Ttrees]

It makes no difference whether a plane has perfectly square sides or not, you compensate with lateral adjustment.

Might make a difference for one who wants the least amount of tools.

 

[Jacob]

Might make a difference for one who wants the least amount of tools.

Not many of them about!

 

[Jacob]

@mark w
Squaring plane sides up and making them less structurally sound, isn't something I'd want to do to a vintage plane,
so in that way the premium manufacturers made the biggest improvement there.

Nobody in their right minds does it. They have lateral adjusters.

Could'a said the likes of Lie-Nielsen are made from practically unbreakable ductile iron too,

But very scratchable. Who breaks planes anyway?

that's an improvement also, though never held one apart from a little plane, so can't comment on the weight aspect.

The retro planes are all heavier

 

[Jacob]

I’ve always wanted one of those but for the five or six doors I hang in a decade I can’t really justify it

I can't see the use of it. Can't possibly be any quicker than using a chisel.