I'm a cyclist.

[Sporky McGuffin]

Pedestrians HAVE to take responsibility for their own actions

As do drivers. But there's an obvious difference between what happens when a pedestrian hits a car vs when a car hits a pedestrian, which is why drivers are rightly held to a higher standard.

 

[doctor Bob]

there's an obvious difference between what happens when a pedestrian hits a car vs when a car hits a pedestrian

What's the difference then, I would suspect the outcome is the same.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

What's the difference then, I would suspect the outcome is the same.

Walk into a car and see how much damage you do it, then have a think about whether you should let a car run into you to see how much damage it does you. I'd suggest you shouldn't. Actually you probably shouldn't walk into a car, it'll hurt, but not nearly as much as having a car hit you.

I honestly thought that was obvious!

 

[paulrbarnard]

What's the difference then, I would suspect the outcome is the same.

For the pedestrian yes but killing somebody through your negligence is a very different thing to someone killings themselves through their negligence.
I would suspect that the risk to self results in pedestrian taking significantly more care than someone sitting in an isolated environment, listening to the radio or chatting on the hands free phone etc.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

For the pedestrian yes but killing somebody through your negligence is a very different thing to someone killings themselves through their negligence.
I would suspect that the risk to self results in pedestrian taking significantly more care than someone sitting in an isolated environment, listening to the radio or chatting on the hands free phone etc.

This too, so probably it wasn't obvious.

 

[doctor Bob]

Walk into a car and see how much damage you do it, then have a think about whether you should let a car run into you to see how much damage it does you. I'd suggest you shouldn't. Actually you probably shouldn't walk into a car, it'll hurt, but not nearly as much as having a car hit you.

I honestly thought that was obvious!

Ok. I didn't realise you were talking about walking into a stationary car.

 

[John Brown]

"The hierarchy places those road users most at risk in the event of a collision at the top of the hierarchy. It does not remove the need for everyone to behave responsibly."

 

[Turnersretreat]

Advanced driving courses do not make you a good driver.
They are not compulsory or a requirement to drive in UK.
Insurance companies do not give you discount for having been on one so that tells you what they think of them.
They are a way for private companies to make money from you.
After being gifted and attending one of these courses I found all they were were thrill seeking courses given by the instructors, not a safe driving course. As a matter of fact a lot of it required breaking the speed limit. I could get the same thrills at Blackpool Pleasure Beach without the danger of killing someone taught by some rich egotistical money maker posing as an advanced driving instructor.

 

[thetyreman]

talking of bad driving, I almost got knocked over today by a white van man whilst walking around, there are some nutters out there.

 

[Spectric]

To be honest a few laxatives the day before hand is the same effect.

When you look at the price of some of these bike components they are eye watering and I can recal a guy spending over a grand just to save the weight of a can of coke, as you say a good shiete and clearout could deliver the same savings.

 

[doctor Bob]

When you look at the price of some of these bike components they are eye watering and I can recal a guy spending over a grand just to save the weight of a can of coke, as you say a good shiete and clearout could deliver the same savings.

Maybe you could do some scientific testing, bag it up, waitrose bags are strong and see whether it equals a carbon wheel etc etc. Monday after a big roast could be equal to ally frame v carbon fibre.

 

[Spectric]

Advanced driving courses do not make you a good driver.

But they do deliver a more disciplined way of driving, making you very aware of the little things and really polishing your driving ability so that you have the skills to reconise a potential synario and be prepared to avoid. The hardest part is talking through what is going through your head and at the end of a section the instructor telling you that you missed quiet a few important observations. In the UK you pass a test and away you go until old age, for many the only extra information they get is from speed awareness courses every five or so years, on my last one I actually learnt after fourty plus years of driving the definition of a dual carriageway and that the national speed limit can be easily remembered by thinking no street lights so there will be many out there driving to what they deem as perfect driving but in reality they are very rusty.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Advanced driving courses do not make you a good driver.

It'd be interesting to see the accident stats for people who've done (for instance) IAM and ROSPA vs people who haven't.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Perhaps there is a link between buyers of ultra expensive bikes and woodworking tools, aside from a lot of spending power.

Those at the top of their game may benefit. Spending money for the simple pleasure of owning and using the best is a possible motivator. Status is a less attractive explanation - but understandable.

Too often it feeds the delusional thought that sub-par performance can be fixed by buying very expensive equipment (tools or bikes). It is mostly practice, care and attention to detail that improves performance. Exceptional equipment will not make the unexceptional, extraordinary.

The best 18th century craftsmen produced outstanding work using a very limited range of tools. Nothing powered (bar limited steam capability). No Li-on batteries. Micron level measurement a dream. No Tormek or Pro-edge for sharpening. Routers, spindle moulders, thicknessers had yet to make an appearance etc etc.

 

[doctor Bob]

Perhaps there is a link between buyers of ultra expensive bikes and woodworking tools, aside from a lot of spending power.

Those at the top of their game may benefit. Spending money for the simple pleasure of owning and using the best is a possible motivator. Status is a less attractive explanation - but understandable.

Too often it feeds the delusional thought that sub-par performance can be fixed by buying very expensive equipment (tools or bikes). It is mostly practice, care and attention to detail that improves performance. Exceptional equipment will not make the unexceptional, extraordinary.

The best 18th century craftsmen produced outstanding work using a very limited range of tools. Nothing powered (bar limited steam capability). No Li-on batteries. Micron level measurement a dream. No Tormek or Pro-edge for sharpening. Routers, spindle moulders, thicknessers had yet to make an appearance etc etc.

Absolutely true, but if it makes you happy and you get pleasure from using your bike / tool then (for all I've mocked it a bit) I think you should buy what you want as long as you can afford it.

 

[Spectric]

Too often it feeds the delusional thought that sub-par performance can be fixed by buying very expensive equipment (tools or bikes).

That is so relatable to woodworkers, I think we all have tried at some point to up our game by trying different tools only to discover the problem is yourself.

With bikes they will all get you from A to B with maybe differing levels of effort required but you don't buy a full blown race car for the daily commute.

 

[paulrbarnard]

That is so relatable to woodworkers, I think we all have tried at some point to up our game by trying different tools only to discover the problem is yourself.

With bikes they will all get you from A to B with maybe differing levels of effort required but you don't buy a full blown race car for the daily commute.

Quite true but with bikes weight is a big factor in effort required. For sure you can reduce your weight rather than reducing the bike weight but assuming you are at your right weight lightening the bike can make the difference between pushing up a hill and riding it up. Weight on a hill really is a killer. On long flat rights rotating weight is the big factor so those carbon wheels make a difference there. When the wind gets in front of you the aero design takes over, to say nothing of the skin tight Lycra. It is of course diminishing returns but the differences are clearly noticeable to anyone riding to their limit, no mater what level that limit is at.

 

[Spectric]

I just think back to when cyclist did not wear helmets, used leather toe clips and many trained on fixed wheel bikes yet cyclist like my mum happily did the Lands end to john o groats run and for her honeymoon spent a few weeks cycling to Cornwall from Romford. These were the days before motorways and there were cafes doted all along the A roads. She also won many medals in time trials on a handbuilt Rory O Brien bike made in Romford so the bikes may have changed but the fitness was always there.

 

[Delwood]

Quite true but with bikes weight is a big factor in effort required. For sure you can reduce your weight rather than reducing the bike weight but assuming you are at your right weight lightening the bike can make the difference between pushing up a hill and riding it up. Weight on a hill really is a killer. On long flat rights rotating weight is the big factor so those carbon wheels make a difference there. When the wind gets in front of you the aero design takes over, to say nothing of the skin tight Lycra. It is of course diminishing returns but the differences are clearly noticeable to anyone riding to their limit, no mater what level that limit is at.

Quite right. When I bought a carbon fibre bike after years of riding hand built steel frames it was noticeable that more power from turning the pedals went into forward motion rather than being absorbed by flex in the steel bike.

 

[Rodpr]

Given that most cyclists are doing it for the exercise rather than to win races, cutting weight becomes counterproductive. You just have to cycle further to get the same benefits. But a smooth running, quiet bike with a slick gear change and good brakes is much more enjoyable to ride