If you're going to build a door ...

[Andy Kev.]

Good Morning All,

I've recently had my bathroom done up and part of the work involved temporarily removing the door. As luck would have it, the thickness of the new tiles means the door is now about 1/4" too long. At first this was a little frustrating but then I realised I didn't particularly like the door anyway. So the obvious thought of building one occurred to me, possibly out of local poplar (nice warm ruddy brown colour) with the top third being a panel of frosted glass.

However, the idea is one Thing, the implementation thereof would be quite another. Firstly there's the matter of very deep mortices for the rails to go into (OK with careful work that should be doable) but what about the flatness of 7 foot plus pieces of wood? It occurs to me that the most crucial and possibly most difficult task would be to build an 8 foot straight edge. How does one do that?

What are the other problems which I would be likely to meet? Is it all just a bad idea to the point that I would be better off buying a door?

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

If you want to make a door go ahead, but could you not just cut a 1/4" off the existing door?

 

[Hot stuff]

I made a couple of odd sized panel doors to match existing ones a few weeks ago and movement, shrinkage etc were by far the worst problems I encountered.
Leave plenty of material on the top, bottom and sides for adjustment if your frame is out of square and winding sticks during assembly are handy.
Loads of time for the wood to acclimatise will save a lot of stress, especially if you're using one of the more spendy types.

 

[MikeG.]

....... what about the flatness of 7 foot plus pieces of wood? It occurs to me that the most crucial and possibly most difficult task would be to build an 8 foot straight edge. How does one do that?...........

You don't need a straight-edge. You sight along the wood from the end. If you really, really need a long straight line, then you can tension a piece of string or use a chalk line (same principle)......but that's building site stuff, rather than joinery. Don't forget, the outer edges of the door are going to be "shot" to the shape of the door lining anyway, and you'll seldom see linings which are straight and parallel, so "straight" is just the start of the process.

 

[Jacob]

Yes - you check for straightness by looking at it. It's easier than you think.
If you made a straight edge you'd check that for straightness by looking at it, then check door stiles with straightedge by looking at them.
"Looking" at things is really useful and everybody should try it before giving up and buying a gadget. :lol:

The biggest prob with a door is not so much straightness - which you usually can correct when fitting, but twist, due to drying, or badly aligned joints. One trad solution is to make the two stiles from one piece of 9" ripped down the middle - you can assume they'll bend together if they bend at all.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I've made only two doors, a 4 paneled interior softwood one in an odd size for an under-stairs cupboard, and an Iroko front door with three panels at the bottom and 3 sealed glazing units at the top. I have to agree that a carefully placed eyeball was quite good enough for flat, and a check of the diagonals for square. I can't say I really knew much about panelled door making, I got lucky though; the front door frame was actually near square, and my iroko has been pretty stable for about 15 years now despite the elements.

 

[AndyT]

I can't offer any practical advice myself - I've only made one M+T door and that was fully glazed - but if you want to make this door with hand tools, you could do a lot worse than have a look at a project that Richard Arnold has started on his Instagram feed.
He's taken his cue from the well-known book by Walter Rose "The Village Carpenter" which says that making a four panel door was considered a good day's work. That time includes ripping and planing all the timber, cutting all the joints, making the panels and assembly. Richard is doing it in instalments as he finds the time. (He's already built a suitable bench and the planes he needs =D> )

I hope Richard won't mind me mentioning this as I know he doesn't post here as often as he used to.

https://www.instagram.com/arnold_richard/

- the first instalment was on 12 October and had a picture of the 16ft plank of 1 1/2" x9" redwood.

 

[rafezetter]

I can't offer any practical advice myself - I've only made one M+T door and that was fully glazed - but if you want to make this door with hand tools, you could do a lot worse than have a look at a project that Richard Arnold has started on his Instagram feed.
He's taken his cue from the well-known book by Walter Rose "The Village Carpenter" which says that making a four panel door was considered a good day's work. That time includes ripping and planing all the timber, cutting all the joints, making the panels and assembly. Richard is doing it in instalments as he finds the time. (He's already built a suitable bench and the planes he needs =D> )

I hope Richard won't mind me mentioning this as I know he doesn't post here as often as he used to.

https://www.instagram.com/arnold_richard/

- the first instalment was on 12 October and had a picture of the 16ft plank of 1 1/2" x9" redwood.

A whole door.... in a day .... 8 hours. I'm sure that was common, but I'm still seriously impressed.

 

[Hot stuff]

Totally agree with that, I was surprised how long it took from start to finish. Very satisfying job though.

 

[sunnybob]

good luck with the build.
but remember one side of that door is going to be regularly bathed in hot damp air.

 

[will1983]

"Looking" at things is really useful and everybody should try it before giving up and buying a gadget. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

As part of my work I train Junior and Graduate Engineers, this is the thing that I bore them to death with, I'm always banging on about "just standing back, and having a look" and "why do you need a Theodolite that can measure to the fraction of a millimetre when you are putting 5 foot diameter drainage pipes in the ground 6 meters down?"

Many years ago when I was an green-as-grass Apprentice, my first Senior Engineer told me this.
"If it looks straight, it probably is straight."
"If it looks straight but actually isn't, no one will ever notice!"
"If it is straight but looks wrong, make it look right even if that isn't straight..."

 

[Cheshirechappie]

In the late 19th century, the normal working day was a bit longer than it is now. Maybe 12 hours rather than 8. You'd still need to be pretty confident with your tools and techniques to finish a door in a day. If anybody can, Richard can, though!

 

[G S Haydon]

If we were to make a basic internal door like you are proposing, I'd want to spend 3 to 4 hours to have something ready to swing in the frame/lining. That would be with the aid of machines. So with Andy's reference, to double that for hand tools seems about right, as long as you were very competent. I would estimate a weekend woodworker might need two full days clear to deal with it.

If you can put that time to one side then go for it. I'd like to avoid picking up and putting down a job with wide rails. They will likely move a bit, so best to get it done in one hit if possible.

Poplar is an ok choice for an interior panelled door. In my experience European Redwood from the merchants has not been very successful. It's normally not dry enough. From a practical perspective it would likely be best to buy a door but if it's for fun, to get a design you like or suit an odd size then go for it. Making doors is fun, I've done a few!

 

[Just4Fun]

I would estimate a weekend woodworker might need two full days clear to deal with it.

That sounds about right. I have just made a rail & stile construction with 3 floating panels that is essentially the same as a door, just a bit bigger. It is all hand tool work with draw-bored mortice & tenons cut by hand and grooves for the panels cut with a wooden plough plane and chisels. I have had to do it over a long period because I don't get extended sessions to work on it but if I add up all the time I have taken then I could have achieved the same in a weekend. The only thing is that I have not had to fit hinges, door handle, a lock or anything like that. Not tricky work but it would add time to the job.

I was concerned about getting all the individual components to end up co-planar and avoiding any twist or other distortions in the final product. I took care to ensure the joints were all cut square and was pleasantly surprised when the final assembly was fully in line throughout. Either I was lucky or it isn't so hard as I thought it might be.

 

[Jacob]

You don't need to draw bore for making a door unless you haven't got any clamps.
Draw boring is a very specialised thing only for situations which really demand it - usually cos it can't be clamped e.g. stair string to newel, which is the most common joinery app.

 

[Adam9453]

You would usually use wedged mortice and tenon joints in a traditional joinery door. A day for one door is about right in a properly equipped joinery shop assuming one joiner working on it.
Much quicker though if you make 30 in one go

 

[Andy Kev.]

Thanks for all the tips. It hadn't occurred to me that judging straightness of a long piece by eye would be enough but now you mention it, it seems obvious.

I'm also grateful for Graham's advice about the need to get it done in one go for fear of the wood moving. If I do decide to do this, then because it is literally a big project I'll have to make proper plans and try to get hold of dried wood as opposed to buying stuff and then risking it going all over the place as it dries out.

Does anybody have any particular recommendations for finishes for a bathroom door? I would imagine that waterproofing qualities would be a high priority.

 

[Just4Fun]

You don't need to draw bore for making a door unless you haven't got any clamps.

My reason to draw bore was a lack of clamps large enough to span my panel. It is the only way - or at least the only sensible way - I could think of to pull the joints tight.
Is there any downside to the draw bore technique, apart from the extra work involved?

 

[MikeG.]

You don't need to draw bore for making a door unless you haven't got any clamps.

My reason to draw bore was a lack of clamps large enough to span my panel. It is the only way - or at least the only sensible way - I could think of to pull the joints tight.
Is there any downside to the draw bore technique, apart from the extra work involved?

There's a limit to how tight a draw bore joint can be pulled, because the tenon or the peg can fail if you try for too much. I'd suggest you try ratchet straps or a loop of rope, wound up with a stick (both with suitable edge protection). They'll pull pretty much anything tight.

 

[Jacob]

Or if everything fits nicely on a dry run you can glue up and insert wedges, alternating between tapping the wedges in and malletting the stile up tight