Ideal boiler central heating setting

[JamiePattison]

We have an Ideal boiler (combi) with 2 settings on the LCD display that controls it.

One for heating the water the other for the central heating. As per the instructions that were given to us years ago we were advised to leave the water setting to the on status so when the tank gets low on hot water it would automatically heat up until the desired temperature has reached and turn off as needed.

For the central heating it does almost the opposite, the status is set to auto and i input the time for Mon -Fri and weekends setting the time it should come on and turn off. There are 3 statuses, on, off and auto.

When the status is on or auto, if a separate dial that controls the central heating temperature is set to 0 the heating does not come on.

If it's set to a temperature then it will come on and switch off once that temperature is reached.

If this dial is set to a temperature BUT the LCD display unit has not been configured to come on i.e. the status is off or the time had not been set then the central heating doesn't come on.

Is the auto setting correct for the central heating? Or if I left it to ON ALL THE TIME would this result in higher gas charges? My assumption is the auto is set 3 times a day for 1 hour intervals and I think if the status is set to on it probably work in the same manner as the water setting where it heats up and turns off as required?

 

[Pedronicus]

Would help if we knew the model as well as the make of the boiler.

On most combis there is a "keep warm" function which pre-heats the water within the boiler (as it's a combi you don't have a hot water tank) so that you don't have to wait too long before hot water issue from the tap. If you are happy to wait a little longer for hot water to flow thereby saving the continual on/off of the boiler and saving gas then leave the pre-heat function off.

Do have a room thermostat or separate programmer?

 

[JamiePattison]

Would help if we knew the model as well as the make of the boiler.

It's an Ideal boiler (the make) but where could I find the model? I looked at the boiler and other than seeing pipes, other similar gadgets I don't know where the model could be found?

 

[Pedronicus]

Did you not get a User Guide when the boiler was installed? There may be a data badge underneath the boiler which will have the model noted thereon. Failing that ask the chap that services it each year as he would know.

 

[Jameshow]

Would help if we knew the model as well as the make of the boiler.

On most combis there is a "keep warm" function which pre-heats the water within the boiler (as it's a combi you don't have a hot water tank) so that you don't have to wait too long before hot water issue from the tap. If you are happy to wait a little longer for hot water to flow thereby saving the continual on/off of the boiler and saving gas then leave the pre-heat function off.

Do have a room thermostat or separate programmer?

Is this possible on a WB 37cdI greenstar?

 

[Pedronicus]

Is this possible on a WB 37cdI greenstar?

It's an Ideal not a Worcester Bosch..

 

[Jameshow]

It's an Ideal not a Worcester Bosch..

I know I was asking the question, but having looked I cannot see such a button, but I have turned it down! 6 to 4 on CH is that a good move?

 

[JamiePattison]

I'm gonna have to call them tomorrow. All I see on the boiler itself is Tribune which doesn't narrow it down.

 

[Bingy man]

We have an Ideal boiler (combi) with 2 settings on the LCD display that controls it.

One for heating the water the other for the central heating. As per the instructions that were given to us years ago we were advised to leave the water setting to the on status so when the tank gets low on hot water it would automatically heat up until the desired temperature has reached and turn off as needed.

For the central heating it does almost the opposite, the status is set to auto and i input the time for Mon -Fri and weekends setting the time it should come on and turn off. There are 3 statuses, on, off and auto.

When the status is on or auto, if a separate dial that controls the central heating temperature is set to 0 the heating does not come on.

If it's set to a temperature then it will come on and switch off once that temperature is reached.

If this dial is set to a temperature BUT the LCD display unit has not been configured to come on i.e. the status is off or the time had not been set then the central heating doesn't come on.

Is the auto setting correct for the central heating? Or if I left it to ON ALL THE TIME would this result in higher gas charges? My assumption is the auto is set 3 times a day for 1 hour intervals and I think if the status is set to on it probably work in the same manner as the water setting where it heats up and turns off as required?

How old is your boiler- you said in your post the instructions you were given years ago?? One of the first ideal combi,s was the ideal issar which were prone to breaking down , suffered with many problems pcb,s and heat exchangers , leaking a/a/ vents etc -they were fitted on new housing developments in there thousands. If it was five or six years ago it’s possibly an ideal logic ( the later models had separate controls for heating and hot water. The model for isaars is on the bottom of the outer case edge on the left hand side if I recall. If it’s a logic this is normally on the front of the case or behind the control flap( door) again if my memory is correct.

 

[JamiePattison]

How old is your boiler- you said in your post the instructions you were given years ago?? One of the first ideal combi,s was the ideal issar which were prone to breaking down , suffered with many problems pcb,s and heat exchangers , leaking a/a/ vents etc -they were fitted on new housing developments in there thousands. If it was five or six years ago it’s possibly an ideal logic ( the later models had separate controls for heating and hot water. The model for isaars is on the bottom of the outer case edge on the left hand side if I recall. If it’s a logic this is normally on the front of the case or behind the control flap( door) again if my memory is correct.

Good gosh!! It's about 10 years and yes it's a new build. We have maintenance on it every year.

Ideal logic does ring a bell but if it helps it's fitted with a Danfoss controller. I'll have to call them in the morning to get an accurate model number but Ideal Logic definitely rings a bell.

 

[Pedronicus]

Good gosh!! It's about 10 years and yes it's a new build. We have maintenance on it every year.

Ideal logic does ring a bell but if it helps it's fitted with a Danfoss controller. I'll have to call them in the morning to get an accurate model number but Ideal Logic definitely rings a bell.

If a Logic does the panel on the front look like the one shown in the User Guide here: https://idealheating.com/uploads/documents/logic-combi-c-user-guide.pdf

 

[JamiePattison]

If a Logic does the panel on the front look like the one shown in the User Guide here: https://idealheating.com/uploads/documents/logic-combi-c-user-guide.pdf

Oops I was looking at the wrong area!!

It's an Ideal Logic Heat 24.

An LCD display in the middle and one dial on each side of the display (instead of 2 as per the image in the link you sent)

 

[Bingy man]

Good gosh!! It's about 10 years and yes it's a new build. We have maintenance on it every year.

Ideal logic does ring a bell but if it helps it's fitted with a Danfoss controller. I'll have to call them in the morning to get an accurate model number but Ideal Logic definitely rings a bell.

Well when they stopped fitting the issar,s they moved onto the logic,s again in the thousands all across the country . If you have a maintenance contract including breakdown cover then get them to come out and tell them about the radiator issue.

 

[JamiePattison]

Well when they stopped fitting the issar,s they moved onto the logic,s again in the thousands all across the country . If you have a maintenance contract including breakdown cover then get them to come out and tell them about the radiator issue.

It's a yearly service contract. We paid upfront for a 5 year service but the model is Ideal Logic Heat 24.

I will check about the single rad issue of it reoccurs (for now it's ok) but understanding of the settings are correct or if they can be further fine tuned

 

[Pedronicus]

Oops I was looking at the wrong area!!

It's an Ideal Logic Heat 24.

An LCD display in the middle and one dial on each side of the display (instead of 2 as per the image in the link you sent)

Ah, the Logic Heat 24 is not a combi boiler but a heat only boiler so you will have a hot water tank somewhere (this could be where the word 'Tribune' comes in).

 

[JamiePattison]

Ah, the Logic Heat 24 is not a combi boiler but a heat only boiler so you will have a hot water tank somewhere (this could be where the word 'Tribune' comes in).

I think I see what you mean. The Tribune tank is somewhere else and the boiler is somewhere else.

So this is probably why I was advised to leave the water setting to on all the time so the boiler heats up the water as and when needed?

What about the central heating option? Should that be the same or 1 hour increments 3 times a day?

 

[Pedronicus]

I think I see what you mean. The Tribune tank is somewhere else and the boiler is somewhere else.

So this is probably why I was advised to leave the water setting to on all the time so the boiler heats up the water as and when needed?

What about the central heating option? Should that be the same or 1 hour increments 3 times a day?

I'll have to research the Tribune unit as have not come across one before. Will come back later this evening if possible.

 

[Alli]

I think from what you described. The on, auto off button will operate the the boiler either
On - overrides any time clock and the boiler will be on 24hours a day. Governed by a thermostat.
Auto - turns on and off from a programmer/time clock. Governed by a thermostat
Off - Turns the boiler off, and the programmer/time clock will have no effect.

The dial you mentioned I think may be the flow temperature for the heating, turning it to 0 - no heating, turning it half way the flow temp might be around 40'C, tuning all the way up the flow temp might be 70'c of whatever your boiler gets too.

I would say, set the times you want the boiler to run, set the boiler to auto and set the dial to about 3/4 of its range. If the radiators/rooms are too getting too hot, turn that dial down. The lower you can run your flow temperature assuming its a condensing boiler, this I think is where the most saving happen.

 

[Bingy man]

I'll have to research the Tribune unit as have not come across one before. Will come back later this evening if possible.

I’m not fully familiar to these tribunes but it’s basically an unvented hot water stainless steel cylinder designed to be heated via an immersion heater or from a coil heated from a gas central heating boiler similar in design to a megaflow. A lot of users of this type of cylinder leave the hot water on constant as some of these systems are hot water priority- meaning if the hot water store falls below a preset temperature it will cut the flow to the rads and bring the hot water back up to temp . My previous advice was based on the op stating he had a combi boiler-however a faulty 3 way valve or zone valve would result in a similar problem with any nearby rads getting warm especially if the hot water is set to 24 hrs .

 

[NormanB]

Just a few things.
In your original post you say you have a combi boiler and then in the same ‘breath’ that you have a tank. What you actually have is a condensing boiler with hot water storage tank.
How you set your boiler up largely (but not exclusively) on your lifestyle and needs.
If you do not have operating instructions for your boiler go online and download one Then take the following approach:
1. Identify how you control the boiler output temperature (also referred to as ‘flow temperature’) and set this initially to 65C, this is to ensure that the boiler is fully in ‘condensing mode’ during heating operation giving a significant lift to efficiency. Basically condensing occurs when the water temperature returning to the boiler is 55C or below.
2. In terms of programming how you want the heating to run it really depends on lifestyle and how long your house is unoccupied during the day. But basically in mild conditions just programme the system say for a few hours when the house is occupied. Once the temperatures drop below 5C you may find you need a different strategy as the fabric (the walls) of the house will cool rapidly especially if your house is poorly insulated/draughty. So in this case you likely need to run 24/7 with a setback period during sleeping hours or periods of planned absence from the house. So, let’s assume someone is home all day - you could set it so that from 0800 to 2200 the desired room temperature is 20c and between 2200 to 0800 the desired room temperature is 15C. Of course if the house is empty from 0700 to 1700 your reduced temp phase could be 2200 to 1600. If your programmer cannot facilitate that you can always upgrade to a Nest or similar.
3. The hot water strategy depends on the size of the tank, how well insulated it is, how many occupants, what time you use it and if the bath is in regular use. That’s why most installers just say leave it enabled on the programmer and let the thermostat turn the boiler on and off - so that you always have hot water. It was OK advice when energy was cheap, now - not so much. If you can do a trial with one programmed hot water heating phase (of say 40 minutes) timed so that it is ‘ready‘ for the time of maximum usage (normally the evening). If that trial reveals you are running out of hot water - either use less - or programme another ‘On period’ 12 hours before that. If you can control the boiler flow temperature when on hot water duty set it to 70C and your desired cylinder temperature on the thermostat to 60C.
4. I do not know what size house you have or the heat loss from it but a 24KW is likely too large and has been sized to heat the hot water tank quickly. Next time you have your boiler serviced talk to the heating engineer about range rating your boiler down on the heating side. If it is technically possible he should know from the size/type of your house and can act accordingly.

It’s a complex business and that is why most people did not bother faffing about when energy was cheap. It is very much worth faffing about now. I have recently helped my daughter who moved into a new house set her boiler and system up - the installer had set the boiler up with a flow temperature of 85C so it would never have condensed and done a lot of cycling on and off. Rather defeated the whole point of having a condensing boiler.

if you want to understand more I can recommend you look at a You Tube channel ‘Heat Geek) which has tailored content for both condensing boiler and heat pumps. Finding a good local heating engineer is key and the Heat Geek website also has engineer recommends on their book. It is worth differentiating between being ‘Gas safe’, a boiler installer and a heating engineer. Many installers call themselves heating engineers but do not understand hydrodynamics, thermodynamics or heat loss calculations.