How To Avoid Kickback On The Table Saw

[transatlantic]

I will never understand this mans logic for not wanting to use a riving knife, but there is still some valuable information in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecCORCUnRW4

Good toilet watching material if you know what I mean. Less mess.

 

[deema]

Thanks for posting, it confirmed all of the reasons I stopped looking at anything from America on wood working. No crown guard, no riving knife, a fence that extends beyond the gullet of the teeth, fingers too close to the blade. They always remind me of the John Cleese management videos that that made fun of how not to do stuff.....just missing any humour, and fortunately no fingers!

 

[whatknot]

Hmmm...very safety conscious !

I know he was doing a demo but no safety glasses, no extraction (presumably due to noise) no face mask

Then he ignores his own advise and flicks a cut piece away with the blade spinning and stops the blade by pressing on the side of it

Its a wonder he has any fingers left ;-)

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Just wanted to get in before Jacob to say please don't listen to this video saying using your hands is safer than push sticks. The safest way for all rip cuts on the table saw is 2 standard push sticks (one to push the work in the direction of the cut, the other to keep it pushed to the fence), stand to the side out of the line of fire with the riving knife and crown guard in place. The most important of those rules (although they are all important) is two push sticks. With longer pieces some times hands can be used at the beginning of the cut but never place your hands level with or passed the blade.

 

[Mr T]

I had to have a lay down in a darkened room after watching that!

Chris

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Oh dear, just watched the rest of the video, just no, so much no I'm going all caps, NO, NO,NO. Stops on a sled need to be removable, clamp on a stop and have a loose piece next to it, push your work up to the loose piece butted to the stop and move it out of the way. Never hold both sides of the work.

 

[transatlantic]

Just wanted to get in before Jacob to say please don't listen to this video saying using your hands is safer than push sticks. The safest way for all rip cuts on the table saw is 2 standard push sticks (one to push the work in the direction of the cut, the other to keep it pushed to the fence), stand to the side out of the line of fire with the riving knife and crown guard in place. The most important of those rules (although they are all important) is two push sticks. With longer pieces some times hands can be used at the beginning of the cut but never place your hands level with or passed the blade.

Whilst I agree that push sticks are safer, I do tend to agree with him that you get better grip and a better feeling for how the cut is proceeding with your hands. Due to the very nature of a push stick, you just don't get that robust equal pressure as you do when using your fingers to support the piece.I feel you generally just have a lot more control with your hands.

I'll still be using push sticks myself though. My fingers are more important to me than a messed up saw cut every now and then.

 

[transatlantic]

Another recent video from a very popular youtuber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkvO99lswZg&t=0s

All the comments about him being a good teacher ... they can't be serious. Bloody awful teacher.

What really annoys me about these youtubers is their complete lack of respect for their audience. Inexperienced people will take on what they say and have a very nasty injury. The logic of "You don't need a riving knife, you need to understand your saw" is just .. ugh .. stupid to say the least.

You absolutley must understand your equipment and what causes issues to arise, but at the same time, having that little bit of steel there to aid in cases you didn't predict is just a no brainer.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Just had to leave a comment on you tube. I mean it's bad enough seeing these people demonstrating unsafe practices all the time, but to pass them off as "safety instructions", WTF is going on.
I encourage people to go to the video and leave comments, you'll probably get a bit of hate, but you might save someone's fingers

 

[transatlantic]

Just had to leave a comment on you tube. I mean it's bad enough seeing these people demonstrating unsafe practices all the time, but to pass them off as "safety instructions", WTF is going on.
I encourage people to go to the video and leave comments, you'll probably get a bit of hate, but you might save someone's fingers

I have done in the past and got a load of abuse from him. Won't again. He is very agressive, and a complete arsehole. But he does make interesting videos.

 

[transatlantic]

And here is an earlier video you may find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0MVtwscyE

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Just wanted to get in before Jacob to say please don't listen to this video saying using your hands is safer than push sticks. The safest way for all rip cuts on the table saw is 2 standard push sticks (one to push the work in the direction of the cut, the other to keep it pushed to the fence), stand to the side out of the line of fire with the riving knife and crown guard in place. The most important of those rules (although they are all important) is two push sticks. With longer pieces some times hands can be used at the beginning of the cut but never place your hands level with or passed the blade.

Whilst I agree that push sticks are safer, I do tend to agree with him that you get better grip and a better feeling for how the cut is proceeding with your hands. Due to the very nature of a push stick, you just don't get that robust equal pressure as you do when using your fingers to support the piece.I feel you generally just have a lot more control with your hands.

I'll still be using push sticks myself though. My fingers are more important to me than a messed up saw cut every now and then.

Without practice yes hands have more control, the more you use push sticks the better you become with them, I have done thousands of cuts with sticks and do not feel I have less control with them, the only time a cut can suffer slightly is the change from hands to sticks on longer pieces, even then not so much when your used to it.
Really though that is not the point, it's all about the day when your a little hung over or have a cold, or are thinking about that row with your wife and something goes wrong. The worst that can happen to me is I damage a push stick or a piece of work flies past me and hits the wall, he losses a finger (there's a guy in the comments section of that vid who just lost a thumb).

 

[transatlantic]

Just wanted to get in before Jacob to say please don't listen to this video saying using your hands is safer than push sticks. The safest way for all rip cuts on the table saw is 2 standard push sticks (one to push the work in the direction of the cut, the other to keep it pushed to the fence), stand to the side out of the line of fire with the riving knife and crown guard in place. The most important of those rules (although they are all important) is two push sticks. With longer pieces some times hands can be used at the beginning of the cut but never place your hands level with or passed the blade.

Whilst I agree that push sticks are safer, I do tend to agree with him that you get better grip and a better feeling for how the cut is proceeding with your hands. Due to the very nature of a push stick, you just don't get that robust equal pressure as you do when using your fingers to support the piece.I feel you generally just have a lot more control with your hands.

I'll still be using push sticks myself though. My fingers are more important to me than a messed up saw cut every now and then.

Without practice yes hands have more control, the more you use push sticks the better you become with them, I have done thousands of cuts with sticks and do not feel I have less control with them, the only time a cut can suffer slightly is the change from hands to sticks on longer pieces, even then not so much when your used to it.
Really though that is not the point, it's all about the day when your a little hung over or have a cold, or are thinking about that row with your wife and something goes wrong. The worst that can happen to me is I damage a push stick or a piece of work flies past me and hits the wall, he losses a finger (there's a guy in the comments section of that vid who just lost a thumb).

Exactly. It's the one time you get distracted or something unexpected happens that it'll get you. No experience can save you from that.

My point was that with a push stick, it's one/two points of contact with very little grip, and not a lot of downwsrds pressure. With your hand, it's five points, with more grip and more pressure and you can feel for the cut.

Whilst push sticks are the way to go in regards to safety, I do feel it's like pushing with chopsticks some times.

 

[Beau]

Having picked someones finger up off a table saw I am a firm believer in using push sticks where possible.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Just had to leave a comment on you tube. I mean it's bad enough seeing these people demonstrating unsafe practices all the time, but to pass them off as "safety instructions", WTF is going on.
I encourage people to go to the video and leave comments, you'll probably get a bit of hate, but you might save someone's fingers

I have done in the past and got a load of abuse from him. Won't again. He is very agressive, and a complete pineapple. But he does make interesting videos.

You tube comments sections don't generally have the same polite considered discourse we employ at UKW. I sometimes comment on political videos and pseudo science videos and have literally had death threats. The trick is not to care, remain polite and stick to the truth. It is very unlikely that you are going to ever change the mind of the person you are addressing but you might influence people who read the thread. Mr "I build it" can be as abusive as he likes, and he can cut his fingers off all he likes, the aim of commenting is to save some of his viewers' fingers.

 

[Tasky]

Ah, but he's apparently full of kudos because he's wearing a Rush 2112 shirt...

It gets worse, though...
Next to Mr. I-Build-It's video is one titled "Kickback on Camera!" by thintz12... in which he intentionally turns wood into a spinning tablesaw blade!!

The one benefit to his video is that I can now see how kickback occurs... and why it can take your hand off even if you're using a push-pad. It tore the block out from under the pad and flung it across the room with some serious force, while also dragging the pad and his hand down the exact same route - Watch in slow motion as he's thrown off balance and his hand touches down SO close to the blade...!!!

It was so scary, I wanted to go hide under Paul Sellers's workbench and never go near machines again!!

 

[transatlantic]

Ah, but he's apparently full of kudos because he's wearing a Rush 2112 shirt...

It gets worse, though...
Next to Mr. I-Build-It's video is one titled "Kickback on Camera!" by thintz12... in which he intentionally turns wood into a spinning tablesaw blade!!

The one benefit to his video is that I can now see how kickback occurs... and why it can take your hand off even if you're using a push-pad. It tore the block out from under the pad and flung it across the room with some serious force, while also dragging the pad and his hand down the exact same route - Watch in slow motion as he's thrown off balance and his hand touches down SO close to the blade...!!!

It was so scary, I wanted to go hide under Paul Sellers's workbench and never go near machines again!!

To be fair - he acknowledges just how stupid it was.

 

[Tasky]

To be fair - he acknowledges just how stupid it was.

It's the fact that he actually did it... Live... for reals...

I don't have sound here, but I'm sure most of that could have been explained and even demonstrated without turning the machine on... I can even devise several ways to demonstrate a live kickback, all while keeping human anatomy a good 12' away from the machine and behind proper protective screens.
Instead he very nearly lost his hand, just for a few YouTube views...

 

[JohnPW]

It just shows he didn't know what he was doing, he was trying to demonstrate something dangerous without what the the dangers were. Of course afterwards he says it was stupid.

 

[OscarG]

As a newbie table saw owner this is an interesting thread.

Sorry if it's daft question but when ripping why does nobody use a featherboard on the spare mitre slot to apply pressure on the board towards the fence? All you have to do then is push with a stick no?