How thick rough boards to start with before planing

[Hornbeam]

In some cases when you remove wood unevenly (band sawing off one side) from a board it bows or cups again

That is why i said to cut a laminate off each side.
General principles whether bandsawing or planing is take it evenly off each side

 

[Inspector]

That is why i said to cut a laminate off each side.
General principles whether bandsawing or planing is take it evenly off each side

I'm sorry I missed that important distinction.

Pete

 

[Hornbeam]

Mentioned earlier in this thread, some timber yards will plane just one side of a board to show the grain. If you dont plane the other side as soon as possible. it will bend. I dont know whether this is due just to material being planed off one face or that the rough texture on one side and the planed surface lose water differently
When I am thicknessing I letter each side A and B and alternate which side I cut from easy to mark it as it comes out of the thicknesser

 

[Inspector]

I have never seen wood planed on one side at any of the sellers here. It is skip planed on both sides of the board. Often abrasive planed (sanded) presumably so there is no tear out. The stack will all be reduced to the same dimension, a 4 quarter board ends up somewhere near 7/8"/22mm or 23mm for instance. People like it so they can see the wood when they buy and they have less material to remove when planing to the magic manufactured/plans dimensions. I would be happier if they left it rough so I can work it to the thicknesses I want and if I need a longer board I have more material I can straighten it with. I also flip and turn the wood to balance the material removed and to minimize tear out.

Pete

 

[HOJ]

I need 2.4m long, 150mm wide boards at 38mm thick, but the cost was extreme for PAR.

@sams93 I see you haven't responded lately, but how much was "extreme" out of interest, if we know what you've had as a price & from where, perhaps other options could be offered, you say your making a bed, will you not need other parts as well, legs, headboard, footboard, slats etc. got a design or plan?

 

[KT -andy]

Buy it planed . I got some 8x2 oak free .
Then spent forever planing it , running it through the bench saw , planing it again .
I can't believe how much sawdust I made for so little good wood !
Honestly 2/3rds of the oak was sawdust .
AND MY POOR OLD TRITON PLANER IS NOT AS GOOD AS IT WAS .

 

[sams93]

Thanks for all of the replies, I was away for a week so I have only just seen them all since my last post.

I realise from all of the messages that what I am trying to achieve is a tad unrealistic, and that I am actually better off in this situation having it machined up for me by the supplier.

I have had a range of quotations, from £3500 plus VAT, to £1000 plus VAT.

I am actually astounded that I can go to oakfurnitureland or equivalent and purchase a solid oak bed for £500-600! Obviously these are manufactured abroad and in scale so I appreciate they must be a lot cheaper to manufacture.

Thankyou for all of your responses,

 

[rogxwhit]

I have had a range of quotations, from £3500 plus VAT, to £1000 plus VAT.

The bottom quote is about the mark, assuming that's planed and delivered. The top quote is in crazy territory.

The fact would seem to remain that your 38mm thickness isn't an economic size with reference to the standard thicknesses available, unless you've changed the spec whilst I wasn't looking?

 

[sams93]

The bottom quote is about the mark, assuming that's planed and delivered. The top quote is in crazy territory.

The fact would seem to remain that your 38mm thickness isn't an economic size with reference to the standard thicknesses available, unless you've changed the spec whilst I wasn't looking?

Not delivered, just planed.

The lower quote was actually £1380 including VAT for:

Prime Grade Kiln dried PAR Oak boards:

• 12 pieces of 40mm Thick, 200mm Wide, and 2400mm Long.
• 9 pieces 18mm Thick, 150mm Wide, 2400mm Long.

So guide me - what would be better thicknesses to ask for price wise.

I was using inches when planning the project so I just translated to mm.

Separately - does anyone reccomend a supplier in the south east (kent/Sussex/Surrey) that would be a good place to get a quote.

 

[rogxwhit]

It may be a question of allowing stock thicknesses to temper your design ambitions. Native oak may still be available in imperial thicknesses but the range will typically still be similar to Euro oak, eg 27mm, 38mm, 54mm, 65mm, 80mm ... all sawn.

Given that your lengths are 2m+ they might lose more in the straightening than shorter lengths. So if your starting thickness was 38mm sawn, you might end up with as little as 28mm fully planed. Can you design a stucture that uses that sort of thickness?

When you plane a board, you don't know for sure what thickness you're going to get until you've got it, so it helps to be flexible to a degree.

It can also be tricky jobbing out selection and machining unless you know what the quality control of the contractor is.

 

[rogxwhit]

Prime Grade Kiln dried PAR Oak boards:

• 12 pieces of 40mm Thick, 200mm Wide, and 2400mm Long.
• 9 pieces 18mm Thick, 150mm Wide, 2400mm Long.

Ok, just catching up here, sorry! That seems reasonable, thickness-wise. 40mm finished out of 50+mm sawn; 18mm fin ex 27mm. Time to leave the diving board.

I also appreciate that to do it yourself, unless you're set up with work support, as with a long bed planer, it can be tricky to straighten long lengths. Rollers don't really cut it, because you'd be forever trying to get them aligned. Thicknessing's easier because you can support the work by hand as it's passed through.

Ask for no sapwood to be included, just in case. It won't rot indoors but furniture beetles love it.

 

[sams93]

The 18mm from 27mm rough, could I get away with slightly thicker do you think?

Thanks

Ok, just catching up here, sorry! That seems reasonable, thickness-wise. 40mm finished out of 50+mm sawn; 18mm fin ex 27mm. Time to leave the diving board.

I also appreciate that to do it yourself, unless you're set up with work support, as with a long bed planer, it can be tricky to straighten long lengths. Rollers don't really cut it, because you'd be forever trying to get them aligned. Thicknessing's easier because you can support the work by hand as it's passed through.

Ask for no sapwood to be included, just in case. It won't rot indoors but furniture beetles love it.

 

[rogxwhit]

could I get away with slightly thicker do you think?

Well you could certainly try. It's really about specifying a target thickness rather than one that's cast in iron. When working with stock preparation there can be a degree of improvisation involved, and you won't be present to oversee the process. I'd aim for some kind of dialogue with the mill so that each of you has a clue about the other's mindset ...

 

[akirk]

Not delivered, just planed.

The lower quote was actually £1380 including VAT for:

Prime Grade Kiln dried PAR Oak boards:

• 12 pieces of 40mm Thick, 200mm Wide, and 2400mm Long.
• 9 pieces 18mm Thick, 150mm Wide, 2400mm Long.

So guide me - what would be better thicknesses to ask for price wise.

I was using inches when planning the project so I just translated to mm.

Separately - does anyone reccomend a supplier in the south east (kent/Sussex/Surrey) that would be a good place to get a quote.

A few of us were curious as to why you needed them that thick...
My example above was that I paid < £30 for 2.4m of 150mm x 25mm
So for your 9 thinner pieces - that would be c. £270
however the real price hit is on the other pieces, so when I look at Yandles where I bought mine - the 40mm x 200mm is over 2x the price of the 25mm x 150mm and if you come down to 25mm x 200mm it nearly halves the price of those pieces...

I would be looking to see if you could change dimensions anywhere

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Ask for no sapwood to be included, just in case. It won't rot indoors but furniture beetles love it.

Common furniture beetle is highly unlikely to infest oak, sappy or otherwise, if it's used in dry interior locations. Dry wooden furniture, e.g., indoor residential furniture that never gets above about 12% or 13% moisture content, and frequently dryer at 6% or 8% MC is a particularly harsh environment for common furniture beetle to survive. Research and data suggest 12% is the lowest wood moisture content at which furniture beetle grubs can exist. Conditions the beetle does like to lay its eggs in are around other parts of buildings, e.g., roof timbers and sheltered wood under eaves, soffits, porches and so on, as well as in rarely heated, or never heated, uninsulated and relatively damp sheds and outbuildings in which wooden items, including furniture, might be stored. Slainte.

 

[HOJ]

Ask for no sapwood to be included

If buying square edged I always ask for no sapwood, usually get supplied wider boards to cut it off as they know the finished size I'm after.

however the real price hit is on the other pieces, so when I look at Yandles where I bought mine - the 40mm x 200mm is over 2x the price of the 25mm x 150mm and if you come down to 25mm x 200mm it nearly halves the price of those pieces...

When pricing timber you really need to measure sawn stock in cubic feet, or cubic meters, and then base your design on expectation of yield, if you are buying cut & finished to size you will also pay for what you don't get, in thickness and length.

My minimum thickness targets from sawn Oak boards are: (can be more & usually minimum of 8'/2400mm + in length)

Sawn to finished

27mm to 22mm
32mm to 26mm
41mm to 36mm
52mm to 46mm
65mm to 56mm
80mm to 72mm

 

[rogxwhit]

Dry wooden furniture, e.g., indoor residential furniture that never gets above about 12% or 13% moisture content, and frequently dryer at 6% or 8% MC is a particularly harsh environment for common furniture beetle to survive.

I quote from long experience, not from any literature. ;-) We all should know that books, or often scientific papers, don't always contain the whole truth ...

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I quote from long experience, not from any literature. ;-) We all should know that books, or often scientific papers, don't always contain the whole truth ...

I too quote from long experience, as well as from studying the subject of insect pests and wood. However, I have found evidence of common furniture beetle attack or infestation in indoor furniture or other wooden artefacts. In each case the infestation was in artefacts with a record of either use or storage in situations where RH conditions were generally significantly higher than the RH conditions found in most newer offices, houses and the like, i.e., rather damp, draughty and poorly heated buildings. For example, antiques I've restored that were stored for a period in sheds or outhouses came to me with evidence of anobium punctatum infestation, or at least some damage. Slainte.

 

[rogxwhit]

I too quote from long experience

We'd better combine our experiences, then, rather than being in opposition!

 

[clive.pomroy]

Re Supplier: Morgan's timber in strood might be worth a visit