woodbrains":2gww0jfl said:
I understand completely what you are talking about but it is your invented figures that I have a problem with. Contending that using a jig makes you spend 80 mins a day sharpening is total BS. You cannot make stuff up to prove a point.
Jacob, for any given sharpening medium, the number of abrasive particles encountered by the blade edge is the same for every stroke. Since each abrasive particle cannot cut deeper than the amount it is proud of the mean base level. Any extra downwards force is just a waste of energy. The only likely result is metal particles will be forced into the surface of the stone, reducing cutting efficiency. In other words, once the stone is cutting as much as it physically can, pressing harder cannot make it cut quicker any more than you can make a plane take a thicker shaving be pressing harder. I am not waiting for more BS reply to this, so please don't bother.
Mike.
Nevermind this accusation of BS matey!! Then you have the nerve to say "I am not waiting for more BS reply to this, so please don't bother." You're either trolling or don't live in the real world.
"You cannot make stuff up to prove a point" is precisely the kind of statement that wins no awards on either a personal or professional level. Nothing was made up and proof regarding pre-existing printed calculation sheets was offered. The precise reason I'd CLEARLY STATED "
Food for Thought" is due to the fact that variations can be calculated into honing timescales and depends upon sharpening media used. The timescales I'd presented were based upon figures concerning tooling present in my workshop and were arrived at during a long term assessment within workshops where I employed nine craftsmen. I didn't work in solitude and chose to pay employees for sharpening time instead of expecting it to be done in addition to their work schedules.
The process assessed;
35-50 seconds - walk to sharpening station, strip down double plane iron, set iron in guide. Variable
20-45 seconds - Re-whet edge. Variable
40-85 seconds - Strip blade from guide, clean down, de-burr edge, repeat process if necessary and return to work area. Variable
Adjust according to your own methods/procedures.
The above depends heavily on your own sharpening regime and whether or not everything goes as planned or takes longer than expected. Allowing 10% additional time can compensate for unexpected interruptions or problems. Regardless of whether a plane iron is re-whetted several times an hour or once daily, you still arrive at an unchanging timescale for the same repeated exercise involving the whetting of a single iron. Various sharpening media were tried (Including water, oil, ceramic and diamond plates) and it was concluded freehand whetting on diamond plate is more cost effective in terms of timescales and durability.
Honing with water stones can increase timescales if using water ponds with water stones - away from your working space - and even more so when used in conjunction with jigs in other areas of a workshop. I never allow water stones at the workbench due to the way it's presence influences Relative Humidity within the workshop, but have no problem allowing oil stones and diamond plates.
All is relative to blade steel quality, timber being worked and sharpening media - as previously mentioned - but you argue that a three minute task that may need carrying out every fifteen minutes during an eight hour day doesn't accumulate to a far higher than often expected figure!? I hope to goodness your pricing structure is far better than your grasp on how wage bills are calculated, because the sample of information I'd provided was simply an example for consideration and not intended to stir up your somewhat volatile attitude.
The primary contention was and still remains - in spite of your somewhat restrictive perspective - that honing guides tend to involve longer set-up and therefore longer whetting times, which ties up far more time than often realised IF gauged over a solid 8 hour working period using the tools involved. Sharpening media and set-up is totally optional and obviously influences timescales involved - any idiot (Other than yourself) knows that -, but using such methods helps highlight points where room for improvement exists.
You - Mike - seem to assume my original point was something concerning bias toward freehand honing versus the use of guides and you couldn't be any further from the truth. I actually advocate the use of any means necessary to achieve a sharp edge, but highlighted the fact that the process of walking to your sharpening station, fitting a blade into a jig, it's use and subsequent removal, then return to work consumes far more time than working freehand with minimal down time. Regardless of whether you use water stones, any other means or can walk on water, there's no escaping the fact that jig guided work takes longer in practice.
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I had hoped the information I'd given would provide insight into the way various process can be assessed and potentially streamlined to reduce down time at work or in a DIY situation. FOOD FOR THOUGHT
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Why do I have a strange suspicion that I know where this is leading?
