Home Lift

[quintain]

I need to consider installing a home lift to enable my lady to move between ground and upper floor.
I am considering putting in a home elevator, plenty of good & bad examples on Youtube.
My home layout has sufficient space in a relatively OK location.

How loud is an electric hoist, one I have researched on sale on Ebay (Warrior Power Products 250kg 240v Electric Hoist) is 71db; I am hopeful I can get one much quieter.

Staircase lift is not possible due to configuration.
Costs of commercial lifts "for less-able persons" are excessive.

Any thoughts, advice etc etc would be welcomed.

P.S. It appears lifts in existing UK private homes are not subject to planning permission or building regs.

 

[Richard_C]

You say cost for commercial ones is excessive. Does that mean unaffordable or looks a lot for what you get? Presumably a commercial installation includes the electrics and the certification of electrics.

The big number here is the value and saleability of your house. Even if you have no plans to move it will be sold one day even if by your heirs. Would I buy a house where someone of unknown competence had installed a lift of unknown provenance? Hmmm.

 

[Sandyn]

I wouldn't trust one of those hoists for lifting any person. You don't know what the failure mode is. It would be horrific if it failed and the person plummeted several metres to the ground. I know it's probably very unlikely, but just too risky without a failsafe backup.

 

[LonelySailor]

I would really consider a professional company to do this sort of job!

 

[quintain]

You say cost for commercial ones is excessive. Does that mean unaffordable or looks a lot for what you get? Presumably a commercial installation includes the electrics and the certification of electrics.

The big number here is the value and saleability of your house. Even if you have no plans to move it will be sold one day even if by your heirs. Would I buy a house where someone of unknown competence had installed a lift of unknown provenance? Hmmm.

Hi Richard C

Thank you for your input.

I am reviewing all options with the fall back situation of having a commercial firm come and fit a lift.

I am however of the opinion that such commercial companies have the attitude "if at their age they need our services we can charge a high fee".

I agree with almost all you say, I also would not want to trust a lift that an unknown person had installed.

I presently have the ability, with the available help I have, to cut through ceiling and floor joists to fit the homemade lift/elevator and when needed have a local builder come in to take out the lift/elevator and make repairs to the ceiling & floor then have a decorator to do his/her work and finish with a carpet layer.

Again thank you for your input; I put my question to listen to other persons views.

Best Regards
Richard M

 

[quintain]

I wouldn't trust one of those hoists for lifting any person. You don't know what the failure mode is. It would be horrific if it failed and the person plummeted several metres to the ground. I know it's probably very unlikely, but just too risky without a failsafe backup.

Thank you Sandyn

Thank you for your input; I fully agree with you about the lift falling some distance resulting in substantial injuries.

I am reseaching 'fall arresters' and other methods of safely stopping the lift should the cable or securing mounts fail with a built in procedure for a 3rd party to move the elevator to the ground or upper floor. (a box/bag containing fresh undergarments etc etc should be available).

 

[Adam W.]

Firstly I'd check with your insurance company and secondly I'd get a proper one made and installed by someone who knows what they are doing, instead of asking a bunch of randoms on the interweb.

 

[quintain]

Firstly I'd check with your insurance company and secondly I'd get a proper one made and installed by someone who knows what they are doing, instead of asking a bunch of randoms on the interweb.

Thanks Adam W

Regrettably we disagree that persons on this forum are a 'bunch of randoms on the interweb' I consider most of them to be intelligent helpful people with a very wide range of expertise.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[morqthana]

I can only second, third, fourth, etc what everybody else is saying about having a proper lift, complying with all the appropriate safety legislation installed, rather than trusting life and limb to a glorified DIY dumb waiter, no matter how sure you are of your expertise.

Having recently spent a lot of time looking at and comparing different makes I agree that they aren't cheap, but they are probably cheaper than the first accident.

 

[quintain]

I can only second, third, fourth, etc what everybody else is saying about having a proper lift, complying with all the appropriate safety legislation installed, rather than trusting life and limb to a glorified DIY dumb waiter, no matter how sure you are of your expertise.

Having recently spent a lot of time looking at and comparing different makes I agree that they aren't cheap, but they are probably cheaper than the first accident.

Yes; you could be correct, it was my reason in asking the question to get sound advice from others but I am not ready to dismiss my thoughts as yet.

 

[Housey210]

Through floor wheelchair lift, often seen on gumtree and facebook free subject to collector repairing holes! Offered two but unfortunately we have 10ft ceilings so cobled together some old stannahs. Worked out fine.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

A few months ago we had similar thoughts. Fortunately we are both ok, but looking to the longer term we need a contingency plan - downsize, move closer to kids, stay where we are etc.

As I quite like where we live and ideally would prefer not to be a burden on the kids (in their 30s now) we looked at options in our current house - 4 bed detached extended at ground floor level.

1. Stair lift. Seems like a lot of money for something really very simple. Stairs bend 90 degrees with mini landing adds to complexity. Permanent reminder of infirmity is unattractive.
2. Convert attached workshop to downstairs bedroom. Plenty of square feet but building regs a costly problem - insulation, need to increase headroom. If I lose mobility to the point I can't manage stairs, then I would probably need a new hobby anyway
3. Extend upstairs - main bedroom suite and lift. Most costly solution. Lift seems expensive but could be designed so that removal would just leave two large cupboards.
4. Convert a single storey extension presently used as office/grandchild playroom into bedroom and en-suite. Cheaper options 2 and 3 and much less disruptive.

It is clear that stair lift and lift companies know most folk only act when a solution is time critical and charge accordingly. I suspect many act in haste and may subsequently regret the outcome.

With a plan (what to do IF), any impediments can be solved in good time reducing costs and timescales - plans drawn up, planning permission if required, understand costs rather than being surprised etc.

 

[ajs]

Firstly I'd check with your insurance company and secondly I'd get a proper one made and installed by someone who knows what they are doing, instead of asking a bunch of randoms on the interweb.

Bit of a boring attitude though, and if everyone followed it noone would do anything. Where do you think the commercial manufacturers come from except some entrepreneur wondering "How can I make an....?"

And yes, a bunch of random input is helpful for things like this. The whole process depends on identifying potential risks and managing them. If you don't do that you're not doing your job. Asking for external input throws at least some of the things you didn't even consider into the mix.

My input here is as a recent home insurance claims handler: this  could raise issues if it became the basis of a claim. Most of the potential claims I see we would almost certainly put a loss adjuster on who would start asking questions. If it complies with applicable building and wiring regs that would only leave gross negligence as grounds for refusal after installation. I can see how that would apply (something of a mechanical nature without appropriate safeguards) but it's difficult for us to prove.

If you compromise the structure of the building actually doing the work generally you won't be covered under the modification provisions. That goes double for e.g. subsidence or collapsing wall claims where we would do a survey as a matter of course.

My advice would be to talk to the local fire brigade first. Of all the public sector they tend to be the most helpful simply because they spend so time in reserve. I'd be paranoid about fire transferring between floors with something like a lift.

 

[Adam W.]

Bit of a boring attitude though, and if everyone followed it noone would do anything. Where do you think the commercial manufacturers come from except some entrepreneur wondering "How can I make an....?"

And yes, a bunch of random input is helpful for things like this. The whole process depends on identifying potential risks and managing them. If you don't do that you're not doing your job. Asking for external input throws at least some of the things you didn't even consider into the mix.

My input here is as a recent home insurance claims handler: this  could raise issues if it became the basis of a claim. Most of the potential claims I see we would almost certainly put a loss adjuster on who would start asking questions. If it complies with applicable building and wiring regs that would only leave gross negligence as grounds for refusal after installation. I can see how that would apply (something of a mechanical nature without appropriate safeguards) but it's difficult for us to prove.

If you compromise the structure of the building actually doing the work generally you won't be covered under the modification provisions. That goes double for e.g. subsidence or collapsing wall claims where we would do a survey as a matter of course.

My advice would be to talk to the local fire brigade first. Of all the public sector they tend to be the most helpful simply because they spend so time in reserve. I'd be paranoid about fire transferring between floors with something like a lift.

Not really, more a kind of safety thing, because it's obvious that the OP doesn't have a clue about lifting stuff, or people for that matter.

I can just see it in the paper...

"Man kills wife with home made lift made from a cheap Chinese machine hoist after receiving input from a bunch of inexperienced people on the UK Workshop forum - Police are investigating."

It appears that the hoist in question was not designed to be used for this purpose, but someone said it was a good idea for a DIY project and "you should do it like this, mate........"

Not good for the homeowners, advice givers, owners of the forum or the wife.

Edit:

If you've ever taken a Stannah stairlift apart, you would know that it is rack and pinion, not drum and cable.

There's a reason for that.

 

[clogs]

I would say a properly installed lift would be an asset not a burdon when selling up......

secondly our 3 bed detached has the norm stairs but they are constructed of concrete and tiled (non slip) but have said to her indoors a fall would be lethal....I have bad knee's....
So we're just converting our second sitting room to a bedroom.....
we already have a downstairs bathroom/shower/wet room thats wheel chair friendly...
Nothing is cheap anymore services wise.....
Depending on ur layout a medium size extension would also be a great bonus when selling up....
Plenty of people out there that want suitable places for disabled relative, esp childeren....

Just to add, pretty much everyhouse I sold I'd built a large workshop, most with heating and full services even toilets.....my basic theary was most men want such things.....the cost of the work I certainly doubled and often trebled.....making a handsome profit....
so same with u, look at the bigger picture......
A well designed/constructed extension with adaptability will give the kids a better inheritance....
PLUS money is rubbish in the bank.....
watching with interest.....good luck.....

 

[Tris]

My employers had one fitted, the hole through the floor/ceiling is surrounded by a pre-made collar that is plugged by either the top or bottom of the lift carriage and what appears to be intumescent strip in case of fire. It lifts on two screw threads. In the case of malfunction or power loss it is possible to hand crank the carriage down. There are also sensors on the underside of the carriage to ensure it doesn't squash the family pet or visiting child as it can be operated from the room above with no view of what's happening below.
Hope this may help the design/decision process
It did require building regs approval

 

[Jones]

I had always presumed that these small lifts were based on a hydraulic scissor lift rather than string and pulleys. Hydraulic lifts are a fail safeish system and only load the ground floor so would need less structural work.

 

[cerro]

Sell the house and buy a bungalow, my wife is serverly disabled and we have had bungalows for the last 20 years now moving back to yorkshire are we looking for a house no a bungalow with double garage.

 

[johnny]

I need to consider installing a home lift to enable my lady to move between ground and upper floor.
I am considering putting in a home elevator, plenty of good & bad examples on Youtube.
My home layout has sufficient space in a relatively OK location.

How loud is an electric hoist, one I have researched on sale on Ebay (Warrior Power Products 250kg 240v Electric Hoist) is 71db; I am hopeful I can get one much quieter.

Staircase lift is not possible due to configuration.
Costs of commercial lifts "for less-able persons" are excessive.

Any thoughts, advice etc etc would be welcomed.

P.S. It appears lifts in existing UK private homes are not subject to planning permission or building regs.

I'd say go for it
If you listen to this lot of unqualified armchair critics long enough ....you'd need to plan for the sky to fall in on your head .

These lifts are not rocket science they have been well designed and approved and are in use all over the country.

They are not just for people that have a disability either, they can free up very valuable floor space in some smaller or older homes with poor layout and allow for much needed rearrangement of room space within the home.

 

[johnny]

I'd be paranoid about fire transferring between floors with something like a lift.

why ? the vast majority of homes have open staircases ! presumably we are not too concerned about that
Thinking about the potential fire transfer risk I would imagine that if you were upstairs the lift would be up there with you and therefore the lift opening would be blocked by the floor of the lift ....