Home cinema/Surround sound

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woody67

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Evenin' All - I might sound a bit of a skinflint in the following lines, but.......we've just got a new telly and DVD player (cheapo but does the job as we aren't huge techies) but would like a surround sound system (5.1 ?) as we have a large lounge and the new Samsung 50" jobbie hasn't the best sound in the world. Whats the best way to go about it or recommended "packages" please? No Blue Ray suggestions please or the kids will want one!! :wink:

Thanks all

Mark
 
Well i looked into this a few years ago and got overwhelmed really. Its an expert area in itself. I just ended up getting the one that matched the rest of the stuff to be honest! The only factor i would say is essential is that the sub is powered independently, unlike the cheaper bose systems as the bass can be a bit cloudy. It is also better to get a wired system but make sure your speaker cables are long enough to span the room without needing to joint them.
 
If you don't want to spend too much and you don't want a great big amp under the TV, go for a package. The Yamaha ones are ok.
Or do a search of eBay to see what kit people have upgraded from :lol: .

P.S. Whereabouts in Cumbria are you? I was born and raised on the West coast and still get to go back every so often.
 
Yo, Special....a fellow Cumbrian - not many about on here! :wink: I live at Dearham, between Maryport and Cockermouth. Where was your old haunt? :D

Mark
 
As with most things it depends on your budget and/or desire to build up over time and/or what you're really looking for.

If it's an improvement over the current sound but not looking for an full on cinema experience, then I'm told kits do a decent but modest job. A quick scout on the John Lewis site suggest you can get something for as little as £150 (although no idea what it will sound like).

If what you really want is a sound that literally moves you then separates is the way to go. Budget £1200+ for a 5.1 system.

If you already have a hi-fi then try routing your TV sound through your hi-fi in the first instance.
 
Thanks for that Matt - How easy is the hi-fi route? Just an improvement on the current sound will suffice methinks.

Mark
 
Answer depends on how much you want to spend.

I have a 7 x 105W surround amp, 250W powered subwoofer and 7 speakers (for 7.1) connected to my TV. All bought about 8 - 10 years ago for about £2k..... after which I stopped looking at review sites etc and have not thought about upgrading since :)

My brother in law has a pioneer unit with a DVD player in the main box, 5 flat panel speakers and a separate sub which cost him about £300. The sound in no where near as good as my set up but it does the job.
 
As already said it depends how much you want/are willing to pay. I have 2 setup's, in the cinema room I have a BIG Denon 7.1 amp with eveything into it and large KEF/B&W speakers all round connected to an HD projector and screen. Total cost somewhere around £7-8k.

Lounge has a 7.1 SONY amp (£750) with B&W MT30 speakers (£1500). Both systems are fantastic, and the B&W are extremely good and stylish speakers. So much so that they are the only ones SWMBO actually liked the look of, pic below. And the sub is a big ball with 2x8" drivers (widely considered to be one of the best on the market, without spending thousands) and shakes the whole house when a good bassy bit comes on a movie :D

Then you get down to cheaper amps, then systems. The comparison is night/day between even my lounge setup and an all in one system, but if you just want reasonable surround sound which is easy to install then one of your basic all in one systems is the way to go.

This is a particular passion of mine so if you want to PM me for any more info just shout.

05-PV1-Image_l2_w817_h3286b99.jpg
 
woody67":uai3iay8 said:
Thanks for that Matt - How easy is the hi-fi route? Just an improvement on the current sound will suffice methinks.

Mark

Hi-Fi route should be dead simple but depends on what output options you have on your TV and (spare (e.g. Aux, or cassette deck but NOT a turntable input - they're special and not suited to normal signals)) input options on your amp.

Then it should simply be a case of getting a suitable lead to connect OUT to IN, switching to the relevant channel (i.e. Aux, cassette, CD, whatever) on your amp. Turn up the volume!

Post some info about the two devices (make and model should be enough to find user manuals on the mfrs site) and it'll be easier to identify specifics.
 
If the TV sound is that bad then using a stereo will be an improvement but ordinary TV can be a lot better with surround sound. Dolby pro logic makes a passable surround from stereo TV and if you have any HD channels they usually have Dolby Digital surround sound.
 
There's no doubt about it, a separates surround system is fantastic and really puts you amongst the action, especially with a large TV but you really have got to be in the zone so to speak to justify the investment.

I really cannot comment on today's kits but 4 years ago the guy who's opinion I trust in the local Hi-Fi shop kinda grinned when I mentioned a £399 kit system and said "there's more value for money out of what you spend on the cable to connect your TV to your Hi-Fi versus spending £399".

Best thing to do is find a local specialist dealer with a sound room (or several) and get yourself down there with an hour to spare. Make them demo some systems for you. If you've got Ice Age on DVD, take it with you!
 
Normally I'm fussy with this kind of thing but we went for a Sony package based on my mates recommendation who has been instaliing these things for years. A really keen enthusiast will spend ages making up a better sounding system from separate bits.

Most important feature? Take SWMBO to look at them and make sure she's happy with what they look like. Never mind the sound quality!
 
We went the 5 to 1 system around 12 years ago via the Hi fi.

We both now need hearing aids, serious ,so it wasnt the workshop that did it. Must have been in the home enviroment.

Shouting at each other is now the norm :)
 
devonwoody":3d10chgq said:
We went the 5 to 1 system around 12 years ago via the Hi fi.

We both now need hearing aids, serious ,so it wasnt the workshop that did it. Must have been in the home enviroment.

Shouting at each other is now the norm :)

:norm: "Do you want a cup of tea?"

(homer) "What?"

:norm: "Do you want a cup of tea?"

(homer) "Do I want a wee?"

:norm: "What have trees got to do with it?"
 
Hi,

I have my tv connected to the HiFi it sounds very good but then the HiFi did cost a lot, we don't miss the sub my speakers go low enough for it not to be a problem, and lack of rear sound effects doesn't spoil your enjoment of a good film.
If you do buy 5 speakers just think how much each one costs, 1/5 of the total cost, its not a lot to spend on a speaker! go for good quality 2 way rather than a poor quality 5 way, 2 quality tools not 5 cheap ones.

Pete
 
RogerS":1upaundw said:
devonwoody":1upaundw said:
We went the 5 to 1 system around 12 years ago via the Hi fi.

We both now need hearing aids, serious ,so it wasnt the workshop that did it. Must have been in the home enviroment.

Shouting at each other is now the norm :)

:norm: "Do you want a cup of tea?"

(homer) "What?"

:norm: "Do you want a cup of tea?"

(homer) "Do I want a wee?"

:norm: "What have trees got to do with it?"


Spot on Roger.

What did you write? (cataract problems as well) :)
 
Pete Maddex":2eyc0ii3 said:
Hi,

I have my tv connected to the HiFi it sounds very good but then the HiFi did cost a lot, we don't miss the sub my speakers go low enough for it not to be a problem, and lack of rear sound effects doesn't spoil your enjoment of a good film.
If you do buy 5 speakers just think how much each one costs, 1/5 of the total cost, its not a lot to spend on a speaker! go for good quality 2 way rather than a poor quality 5 way, 2 quality tools not 5 cheap ones.

Pete

A good point about Hi-Fi speakers. I realise you're not talking about surround sound but, in the case of a surround using large front left and right channels then it's worth considering a sub-bass rather than just a bass (sub-woofer) speaker. Check out REL acoustics.
 
Pete Maddex":1t8ev1gf said:
Hi,

I have my tv connected to the HiFi it sounds very good but then the HiFi did cost a lot, we don't miss the sub my speakers go low enough for it not to be a problem, and lack of rear sound effects doesn't spoil your enjoment of a good film.

Agreed. My approach is similar.

However, a friend has surround sound (albeit much lower sound quality than my hi-fi). Surround does add to a film - it's quite immersive.

BugBear
 
As Matt suggested, I would go and get some demos. At the very least this should give you an idea of what you can get for your budget. I would also try to demo something 2-3 times your budget so you can get a sense of whether this is the start of the slippery slope into AV or you know you'll be happy with a relatively budget system. In other words do you get a package system, which on the whole can't easily be upgraded, or you opt for a separates system, or even the basic parts of a separates system, with an eye to gradually upgrading as funds allow.

If you already have a reasonable hi-fi then just running the 2 channel output from the TV or DVD should give you a boost in sound quality. You may need to check whether the DVD player will convert the 5.1 digital sound into a 2 channel analogue output and has the requisite 2 channel output (let us know the make/model and we can advise). Or as suggested, the TV may have an audio out, again make and model would help.

If you decide on a surround system, and plump for the separates route then consider doing it in stages. Some people, including me for a while, and others that have already commented, are happy just using front speakers. Arguably the most important speaker in a surround setup is the centre speaker, since I think on average something like 70% of film audio is dialogue, and you really want that keyed to the display, which is what the centre channel does. So you could opt for just the front three speakers (a 3.0 system). If you find that the extra bass a sub-woofer offers is something you think is important for your viewing pleasure then add a sub-woofer (a 3.1 system). As mentioned, a very good SW can cost thousands (eg the Velodyne DD range) and those that own them can pour scorn on the cheaper models (eg REL) since the quality of the bass is not that good. This is something where I feel if you are coming into AV for the first time, and you can't tell the difference between 'good' and 'bad' bass, a relatively cheap sub-woofer will enhance your viewing pleasure (as long as it is sited carefully). People with expensive systems have often got to that point over time through various upgrades and have come to appreciate the differences a better quality system can offer.

In other words what I'm saying is don't be put off by comments you may get about buying a cheaper system, we all have to start somewhere, but try to demo anything before you buy to ensure that you are happy with it.

Lastly you can add rear speakers, which ideally should be the same as the front speakers, at least in the same model range, but they are only really effects speakers and something smaller and more discrete would be sufficient initially.

Another area that I consider important is speaker placement, even with budget systems. More often than not speaker size and placement is a compromise between aesthetics and real world room use and the ideal world. However do try to consider your room layout, if speakers can not be positioned in the generally recommended places (this is often the case with rear speakers) then consider whether you do without them. You may end up with a system that either spoils the surround sound field or the speakers are too far away to get the proper effect. You may be better off spending more on the rest of the system.

You may also want to ensure that the system is future proof for HD material. This would mean ensuring that the surround amplifier either has an HDMI input and can decode the new HD surround formats, or has a multi-channel input that can receive the decoded audio from the Blu-ray player (which itself must have a multi-channel output).

Gosh, just realised how long this post is, my apologies if any of this is simply muddying the water, I hope it is of some help. As pointed out, coming into AV for the first time can be daunting, but like TrimTheKing, I would be more than happy to offer advice here or offline.
 
REL "cheap" - I'd hate to think how many several thousands the Velodyne DD's cost :shock: I thought both manufacturers covered a similar spectrum.

When I was buying my surround sound I auditioned a £70,000 system. Amazing but only in the right space :D .

On the subject of discreet speakers. All four of my surround speakers (i.e. the side channels and two for the rear) are barely noticeable, flush mounted in the ceiling. I was sceptical at first but it's surprisingly good. Nowhere near the compromise I was expecting in favour of not having a room full of ugly speakers.
 
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