Helping at a repair cafe

[Phil Pascoe]

Plus the landfill element , probably some of the electronics recycled for metals
AND
i had a neighbour whos job was repairing domestic vacuum cleaners , he was retired in the late 90's, and also unable to repair - but he would repair and they would last years and years avoiding landfill

My friend repaired white goods and domestic electrical gear - he told me Dysons paid half his wages.

 

[bourbon]

@Jonnyb. So how much will a tradesman, making a living wage, charge someone to unblock a vacuum cleaner tube? A frequent 'repair' for us. If any gluing needs doing, our repairers usually take the job home.

 

[johnnyb]

So let's see the vacuum cleaner needs unblocking so take it to a free service to unblock. If that isn't the perfect example of why free things result in disabling people not enabling them I can't think of a better example than that.

 

[johnnyb]

Of course meaning if you charged them £30 or a decent sum they would rapidly learn to unblock vacuums.
Like Sikh gurdwara s who provide free food but ended up feeding half Leicesters polish population three meals a day ad infinitum.

 

[deema]

Not so.

Many of the electricals repairers are ex-electricians, now retired, but doing it as hobby. I repair electrics. I've never been a trade electrician; but I have degrees in mechanical and electrical engineering and design. And I've found that most trade electricians spend their time on house wiring and circuit faults, and never see the inside of a device.

As for 'Elf-n-Safety, it doesn't intrude too much, as things like PAT testing are not required, if you're not selling either your services, or the device itself. And most Repair Cafés have a liability disclaimer form for all customers to read, absolving repairers of responsibility for future mishaps. Customers can object, and decline to have their item repaired. None do.

Oh dear, two degrees, but blissfully unaware of the responsibilities and liabilities. I too have a degree in Electrical and electronics as well as being a Chartered Engineer. I also was involved with the last IEEE regs (not the latest) and ran at one stage a company that designed and manufactured electrical test instruments. I can play top trumps too

There isn’t a contract that exists that allows the customer irrespective of whether the work paid for or free to sign away the fact that someone may create a lethal or dangerous bit of kit. If you fix it, you are personally liable for your errors as well as the organisation that organised for you to do it.

Knock yourself out, if you feel like playing Russian Roulette. But from what you say about how these cafes operate they should be shut down immediately, extremely ridiculous way of operating.

 

[wurglesnash357]

Cooper, I didn't see this thread until today. I hope your session went well. I've been involved with our local Repair Café for about five years, and I feel that a lot of the comments made in this thread are based in ignorance, and I would suggest that for some of us more time spent volunteering and less spent "holding forth" might be time well spent.

The café I'm involved with has a hub in the local shopping mall (which I don't get involved with because I haven't time) and does a monthly pop-up session in other local venues, which I attend. Clients are required to be present and be as involved as possible in the repair. I find that many of them are genuinely interested, and many lack the confidence and experience to tackle things themselves. By showing them what to do and getting them as hands-on as possible many of the tasks become less daunting and people are more able to do things for themselves.

Our organiser doesn't get involved in repairing, but plays a vital role in the smooth running of the morning, so I disagree with Spanner48 on that point. We operate a booking system whereby each job is known before the day, with a short description of symptoms. It does lead to an occasional no-show but that is seldom a problem as many repairs take much longer than predicted and time can get very pressured. We always encourage potential customers to use local professionals if it is possible and appropriate.

Deema, you raise a potentially valid point about the safety of electrical repairs but rather overstate the case. Many, if not most, of the electrical repairs we carry out are on battery-powered or other low-voltage devices. It is a requirement of our insurers (as well as being sound commonsense) that all mains-powered devices are PAT tested before and after repair, and that testing and repairs are carried out by a 'competent person' [Insert rant about Weasel Words here.] There is no power on earth which can stop people doing dangerous things to their own devices in their own homes, if they so choose.

There is a great camaraderie and sharing of ideas, experience, tools and materials among the volunteers and when we cannot repair something we advise on purchasing spare parts to bring to the next session, or how to dispose of it if it has reached the end of its life. The clients, in my experience without exception, are pleasant and interesting people and I have several times been greeted round the town by people I've repaired things for.

This morning mong other things I spent a very satisfying hour fault-finding a twenty-year-old portable radio, a job which in no universe I'm aware of would be commercially viable. I was able to repair one fault, showed the owner how to live with another, learned something myself, and sent him rejoicing on his way. What's not to like?

Les

P.S., if we're flaunting our qualifications I've got two degrees and membership of the IET, plus fifty-something years' professional experience. Your call, Deema!

 

[deema]

@wurglesnash357 Ive had a good read of the Repair Cafe WEB site, when the first post was made I thought what a brilliant idea, I’d not heard of it. I assumed they would organise to train and assess people’s abilities before inflicting them on the public. No so, anyone can start a cafe and just need to pay €49 and they are off!! Insurance, well maybe, but not required. Expertise? None, no training or assessment. Safety? Not mentioned. But it does say ‘All Repair Cafés often need new, handy volunteers to act as repair experts during the repair meetings’ now, it might not register with volunteers what putting yourself as an ‘expert’ really means!

So, let’s take fixing battery goods. Nothing with just batteries in it has ever caught fire…..or has it!

The Repair Cafe WEB site mentions fixing bicycles…..well, don’t do it right / make an error and someone can have a very nasty accident…..and your the person who was the ‘expert’ who fixed it! No training, no insurance and you put yourself up as an expert. Good luck!

Fixing something for yourself and doing stupid stuff is fine, your own risk. Doing it as an ‘expert’ for someone else, a whole different legal minefield.

 

[Jacob]

What a lot of fuss!
Be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic!
Barrack room lawyers?
Get a grip - it's just about people helping each other to mend things!
A very ordinary, normal, sociable human activity and long may it continue.

PS if @deema asks for any help or advice about anything, do not volunteer, be extremely cautious, you could end up in court!

 

[Jacob]

So let's see the vacuum cleaner needs unblocking so take it to a free service to unblock. If that isn't the perfect example of why free things result in disabling people not enabling them I can't think of a better example than that.

Get a grip - you'd only ask for help if you couldn't do it.
In the process you might also get shown how to do it next time.
I had a Dyson briefly and that used to block up in mysterious ways. I managed to do it myself after a bit of a struggle but I like to think I'm fairly practical. Others might well have given up.

 

[Cooper]

I really enjoyed the session. I met loads of interesting people with a similar point of view about extending the life of useful items etc. I was also pleased that TIVIR from this forum who came along and joined the conversation and we went for coffee.

There was another volunteer woodworker there, whose approach was rather different to mine and only one wooden item, a toy garage, so I left him to it, only lending a few bits and pieces.

I took this piece of advice! It made me very popular!!

the roses tin of helpful screws collected in every self respecting shed come in handy.

I spent most of my time repairing a sewing machine, the the bobbin had become out of sync with the needle. Most time was spent trying to get the two halves of the plastic casing appart without damaging them. Once I'd seen how the two drive shafts were linked it only took a few moments to get them back in sync.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

 

[Cooper]

I had a Dyson briefly and that used to block up in mysterious ways. I managed to do it myself after a bit of a struggle but I like to think I'm fairly practical. Others might well have given up.

Funnily enough I was asked to fix a battery Dyson, it was completly dead. I was able to check that the charger was ok, as the battery wouldn't take a charge I had to presume that was the problem. The owner addmitted it was not a genuine Dyson replacemt but a bargain from Ebay.

 

[Jake]

Some very grumpy people about other people lending a hand to help people out in hard times. Good on you for that, and trying to reduce the throwaway-ness of society.

 

[Cooper]

Like charity shops inflating rent in High streets things have unforeseen consequences. And putting them under a charity banner doesn't change the outcome.
Why not set up a mechanic cafe next to a little garage for instance.

I'm afraid that repair shops in our neck of the woods, of which there once were many, are now a fondly remembered piece of local history.
The only one left I know of is a cycle repair shop, which mainly concentrates on the highly technical racing bikes, he's only still in bussines because he owns the freehold and is approaching retirment.

 

[Jacob]

Some very grumpy people about other people lending a hand to help people out in hard times. Good on you for that, and trying to reduce the throwaway-ness of society.

I think of them as "agitated nay-sayers" in partnership with "barrack-room lawyers".
Or literally; "reactionaries".
It's a personality trait.

 

[Mike Fletcher]

Saving from landfill is the objective of the Repair Cafe. We have fixed many vacuum's, toasters, coffee machines, etc, even a robotic vacuum! The list goes on and on. I must say we have a very talented bunch of guys. I replaced a switch in an angle grinder and the guy gave us £20.00 and a bottle of wine. It saved him the cost of a new one and the old one didn't go to landfill. Regarding the Men's Shed, we have "overhauled" several cast iron arm benches. One we sold for £240.00! Again, another item that didn't go to landfill. Not the primary objective of the Men's Shed but but we had fun doing it and someone is enjoying it.

 

[okeydokey]

Oh dear, two degrees, but blissfully unaware of the responsibilities and liabilities. I too have a degree in Electrical and electronics as well as being a Chartered Engineer. I also was involved with the last IEEE regs (not the latest) and ran at one stage a company that designed and manufactured electrical test instruments. I can play top trumps too

There isn’t a contract that exists that allows the customer irrespective of whether the work paid for or free to sign away the fact that someone may create a lethal or dangerous bit of kit. If you fix it, you are personally liable for your errors as well as the organisation that organised for you to do it.

Knock yourself out, if you feel like playing Russian Roulette. But from what you say about how these cafes operate they should be shut down immediately, extremely ridiculous way of operating.

I agree with Deema here and feel that whatever disclaimer the customer or repairer or the actual Repair Cafe or their insurers (presume they have one and wonder how it protects the repairer as opposed to the Cafe) have in place, the liability surely comes down to the person who "fixed it" and whether they were qualified by any means or manner of qualification or experience to undertake the repair.

 

[Jacob]

I agree with Deema here and feel that whatever disclaimer the customer or repairer or the actual Repair Cafe or their insurers (presume they have one and wonder how it protects the repairer as opposed to the Cafe) have in place, the liability surely comes down to the person who "fixed it" and whether they were qualified by any means or manner of qualification or experience to undertake the repair.

So if one of your mates asked you if you could help him fix his bike or whatever, you would check your insurance first?

 

[wurglesnash357]

Oh dear, perhaps I'd better stop doing repairs and PAT testing for the local charity shop.

Still, let's look on the bright side: It's only paranoia if they're not out to get you.

Les

 

[johnnyb]

I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about such things as liability, insurance et al! I view it all (rightly or wrongly) as bureaucracy and a good way to stop people doing things. Not my point at all. Humans are the most inventive and creative species until someone does it for them.

 

[guineafowl21]

I think we’re looking at real life vs the letter of the law, or at least, the ‘law’ as dictated by insurance companies.

Does the proverbial boy Scout, helping the old lady cross the road, have to ask himself: do I have liability insurance? Am I qualified in geriatric care?

I’m currently replacing the discs, pads, calipers and power steering pump on my landy. Am I qualified and insured to work on the two most safety-critical systems on the vehicle? No. (Will I do a good job? Damn right, I will.)