Helping at a repair cafe

[Jacob]

Like charity shops inflating rent in High streets things have unforeseen consequences. And putting them under a charity banner doesn't change the outcome.
Why not set up a mechanic cafe next to a little garage for instance.

No it's the landlords who inflate the rents. Simple mistake.
Charities don't pay business rates, which is part of the reason why they are there. They are just an extension of voluntary work which has always been done everywhere, largely by unpaid volunteers, and are a valuable service to the less well off in today's difficult times. Also a counter force to waste and built-in obsolescence.
High Street charity repair shop sounds like a very good idea, maybe that's the next generation. It'd work well for woodwork as you could have all the kit in place, and perhaps teach skills at the same time.
Along the same lines, there's quite a few give away sites like Freegle, which help keep stuff in use and circulation. Facebook market place often has free stuff.

 

[johnnyb]

But charities paying more rent then inflates the market artificially.
If you repair something worth repairing for free nobody will ever learn to repair it thus condemning every item in the future to be landfill. Pay a wage to a person to repair it and people will learn to repair. (Ad infinitum)
It's the "pay a wage" part that wrankles. A £5 donation to a charity that uses 70% to pay for running costs isn't the same. Look at good old capt Tom's charity.

 

[spanner48]

At the risk of being called a humbug. These arrangements completely devalue any skill used in there execution. The principal is great but the reality is the skills your using to fix said item are immediately assimilated as valueless by the general public. It's basically the final expression of these skills(in a commercial sense)

Just perhaps "devaluing the skills" is what Repair Cafés are FOR?

I have helped out at many [437, so far] RCs. I've slowly come to realise that repairing the customer's item is NOT the output. If the objective is to save CO2 emissions by inculcating a "make and mend" mindset, rather the "throw it away and buy another crappy device from China, that may last a few months before falling apart", then the output is not the device, but the customer.

A customer convinced that the skills are ones she [or he] can acquire; and inspired to do that, and to pass on the knowledge and inspiration to their friends and children. If I inspire one customer, and if she [they're almost all she's] inspires one more person, and if they inspire another, it starts to act like a very slow nuclear explosion.

So for me, the talking to the customer is as or more important than the repairing. When I hand back the repaired and working item, I tell them "This is not what the output of the RC represents; the real output is you!"

 

[johnnyb]

Once a skill is devalued to the point when it's free market economics means it will die. Yes you guys may be a hangover from a previous era but if your intention is to upskill then go and teach people under 18 to repair stuff. Run courses where you teach young people to repair stuff.

 

[Jacob]

But charities paying more rent then inflates the market artificially.
If you repair something worth repairing for free nobody will ever learn to repair it thus condemning every item in the future to be landfill. Pay a wage to a person to repair it and people will learn to repair. (Ad infinitum)
It's the "pay a wage" part that wrankles. A £5 donation to a charity that uses 70% to pay for running costs isn't the same. Look at good old capt Tom's charity.

So nobody should do anything for anybody without charging for it?

 

[johnnyb]

Not at all. But when things become mass market...one in every town..these always have unforeseen consequences. Often the exact opposite of what's intended.
So if job repairing these valuable "things" isn't worth £20000+ (a living) then that job will die when the retired chaps (doing it for free)involved die. Thus every item broken in that future will be landfill. I've seen it happen. A skill that can't provide a living will die.

 

[Jacob]

....... A skill that can't provide a living will die.

Sorry, nonsense.
You've only got to think of this forum where I guess a majority don't make a living from woodwork.
A vast amount of unpaid work goes on in every household, every community, every country, and has done throughout history.
One in every town? How about the common sight of 5 estate agents in every street? I'd rather see 5 charity shops!
There is big issue with landfill but it's not because people are repairing stuff! It's because of built in obsolescence and lack of recycling. The more repairable and repaired stuff is , the slower it will end up in land fill.

 

[Logger]

Sorry, nonsense.
You've only got to think of this forum where I guess a majority don't make a living from woodwork.
A vast amount of unpaid work goes on in every household, every community, every country, and has done throughout history.
One in every town? How about the common sight of 5 estate agents in every street? I'd rather see 5 charity shops!
There is big issue with landfill but it's not because people are repairing stuff! It's because of built in obsolescence and lack of recycling. The more repairable and repaired stuff is , the slower it will end up in land fill.

There is a difference between people doing woodworking in there home and a repair cafe offering free repairs in a commercial unit.

 

[Logger]

Apologies, don't know why first quote appeared! (Now edited)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But charities paying more rent then inflates the market artificially? I suspect in many circumstances they're paying very little in today's town/city centres - no one wants the premises and as long as someone is in them the owner doesn't have to pay council taxes. The same goes for churches in industrial units.

 

[johnnyb]

Sorry I really didn't mean to take this off topic...just got carried. Apologies.

 

[Etaf]

hope you have a good day today , Spent most of childhood and young adult in Chislehurst (1966-1979) and spent many a day in the high street, before the shopping centre expandanded from a few shops.
Seems like a great idea for people , and also saving the environment if it can be repaired , so much stuff now is through away, 1. because parts are unavailable or 2. because of the labour cost to repair , cheaper to buy new

let us know how it went today

 

[Fergie 307]

But charities paying more rent then inflates the market artificially.
If you repair something worth repairing for free nobody will ever learn to repair it thus condemning every item in the future to be landfill. Pay a wage to a person to repair it and people will learn to repair. (Ad infinitum)
It's the "pay a wage" part that wrankles. A £5 donation to a charity that uses 70% to pay for running costs isn't the same. Look at good old capt Tom's charity.

I think you miss the point in that frequently it is the wage of the repairers that is the issue. What will an electrician charge you to change the element in a kettle for example? Add the cost of the part itself and you are looking at more than the cost of a new one, probably a lot more ! Pretty soon the manufacturer redesigns the thing in such a way as to make it even cheaper, but in the process makes it essentially unrepairable, and consequently also stops supplying parts for it.
This is certainly the case in the motor trade. No one nowadays repairs a water pump or fuel pump, it simply isn't economic. In many cases the components are now spun together or similar, so they cannot really be dismantled even if you wanted to. Why ? Simply because it's cheaper to throw it away and fit a new one than supply a repair kit and pay a mechanic three times the cost of a new unit to rebuild the thing.
So if we return to our hypothetical kettle, if the repair cafe can get a new element and fit it, assuming that is the sort of thing they do, for the cost of the part and a small donation then power to them. It's not all about money, seems to me that they provide a useful service.

 

[johnnyb]

If its free I'll have double!

 

[deema]

I’m going to be ‘Charlie’ of Clarksons farm! I’m rather surprised by the suggestion that unqualified people are dabbling at repairing electrical items. When as is almost certain, a fire or worse still someone gets electrocuted who carry’s the liability and possible prosecution? Fixing stuff is brilliant, but if your doing it for the public you dam well need to be qualified, know exactly what your skilled to do and ensure you have proper insurance for when it all goes wrong!

Good ideas and intentions seem to fall at the hurdle of ‘elf and Safety’ public and product liability insurance.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Kettles? I think the last one I bought a few years ago was about £6. The last element I replaced, probably the best part of thirty years ago was iirc about £7.

 

[Fergie 307]

Kind of my point.
My dad had an old Swan, with the big round plug in the bottom of the handle. Quite expensive in its day. It had already had several elements over its lifetime, but when the current one gave out I can't remember if he just couldn't get the part, or it was too expensive. New one from Tesco, £5. Made in China, when it packs up chuck it away and buy another one. I don't think most of us nowadays are prepared to pay for decently made things like this, or the cost of repairing them.
I Dare say it will bite us in the bum one day, when we are up to our eyeballs in our own junk !

 

[Jacob]

....
I Dare say it will bite us in the bum one day, when we are up to our eyeballs in our own junk !

It's a shocker at our local "recycling" depot - skips full of flashy looking electrics and electronics which haven't lasted long and were not reparable.
The bite in the bum is that they were made by low paid in China or wherever, take away jobs here, being cheap they reduce pressure on wage demands too.
A triple whammy - we get less work, get paid less and less able to afford better quality.
'Twas ever thus - cheap imports can lead to unemployment and low wages.
PS the family had a Hoover vac which lasted about 50 years! Most modern ones won't last 5.

 

[Etaf]

Plus the landfill element , probably some of the electronics recycled for metals
AND
i had a neighbour whos job was repairing domestic vacuum cleaners , he was retired in the late 90's, and also unable to repair - but he would repair and they would last years and years avoiding landfill

 

[spanner48]

I’m going to be ‘Charlie’ of Clarksons farm! I’m rather surprised by the suggestion that unqualified people are dabbling at repairing electrical items. When as is almost certain, a fire or worse still someone gets electrocuted who carry’s the liability and possible prosecution? Fixing stuff is brilliant, but if your doing it for the public you dam well need to be qualified, know exactly what your skilled to do and ensure you have proper insurance for when it all goes wrong!

Good ideas and intentions seem to fall at the hurdle of ‘elf and Safety’ public and product liability insurance.

Not so.

Many of the electricals repairers are ex-electricians, now retired, but doing it as hobby. I repair electrics. I've never been a trade electrician; but I have degrees in mechanical and electrical engineering and design. And I've found that most trade electricians spend their time on house wiring and circuit faults, and never see the inside of a device.

As for 'Elf-n-Safety, it doesn't intrude too much, as things like PAT testing are not required, if you're not selling either your services, or the device itself. And most Repair Cafés have a liability disclaimer form for all customers to read, absolving repairers of responsibility for future mishaps. Customers can object, and decline to have their item repaired. None do.