Help me understand this joint

[DuncanA]

Evening all,

I came across this desk some time ago and it's stuck in my mind. I'm thinking for my next project I might make a table along similar lines. I really like the exposed dovetails on the corner, but I just can't work out the mechanics of it.

http://www.gallery.acfc.co.uk/index.php ... 653&page=6

There's clearly something providing support to the front rails/aprons - but I somehow can't see a joint that would attach to those fairly thin dovetailed lengths without weakening the overall construction. Dowel joints maybe? Or some sort of packing between the drawer and the panel on the side?

Perhaps I'm overthinking this and the solution is simple - but it's going over my head right now! #-o

Any ideas?

 

[custard]

At a guess I'd say the leather skiver is laid on an MDF ground. Consequently there's no movement problems. If I was making this I'd lay the skiver then add the solid timber lippings front and back. This can then be jointed to the leg assemblies with Dominos, dowels, or loose tenons. The base unit is handled similarly.

There's a lower rail on the side that's jointed into the legs at the front and back. If I was making this I'd follow through the exposed joinery idea and use wedged through tenons, but that's just a personal preference.

I've made a few desks that follow a broadly similar construction, like these

If you decide to actually build it then let me know and I can give you a few tips on areas like accurately setting up the drawer cavities and options for the panel pieces.

Good luck!

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Could you not make it as three pieces that knock down. The two end frames, and the top with the framing for the drawers. Attach them with bolts and metal cross dowels from inside the drawer openings and round the back into the legs ?

Forgive me if I'm not making much sense, on the wine ATM.

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

At a guess I'd say the leather skiver is laid on an MDF ground. Consequently there's no movement problems. If I was making this I'd lay the skiver then add the solid timber lippings front and back. This can then be jointed to the leg assemblies with Dominos, dowels, or loose tenons. The base unit is handled similarly.

There's a lower rail on the side that's jointed into the legs at the front and back. If I was making this I'd follow through the exposed joinery idea and use wedged through tenons, but that's just a personal preference.

I've made a few desks that follow a broadly similar construction, like these





If you decide to actually build it then let me know and I can give you a few tips on areas like accurately setting up the drawer cavities and options for the panel pieces.

Good luck!

As soon as I saw your pics, I had an urge to find such a table,get it and try to break its leg with one side swipe of a leg...
Looks nice tho!

 

[MikeG.]

........As soon as I saw your pics, I had an urge to find such a table,get it and try to break its leg with one side swipe of a leg.....

It's difficult to think why anyone would write this unless their purpose was simply to annoy. You complained in another thread about people not confining their answers specifically to the question raised in the opening post, so perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you think you have contributed to an understanding of the mechanics of the joint in the first photo. I'll be interested to see how you wriggle out of a charge of hypocrisy with this one.

 

[custard]

As soon as I saw your pics, I had an urge to find such a table,get it and try to break its leg with one side swipe of a leg...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this is a sensible question regarding constructional strength.

By a lucky co-incidence I'd previously used a test piece from this style of desk to illustrate a question on how to lay saw cut veneers.

This shows how the side rail is jointed into the leg. In fact at this stage I was still developing the joinery and the final version had some additional refinements that made it even stronger. Bottom line is that, properly executed, this design is perfectly capable of withstanding any and all abuse that will come it's way. I've made several pieces to this design and collectively they've happily withstood a lifetime's hard use.

From a practising cabinet maker's perspective the OP's question is chiefly about the joinery requirements of a style of desk that is made as three sub-assemblies, two leg assemblies and a central desk unit assembly. So, based on first hand experience of making similar furniture, the answer is that careful and considered joinery will produce a perfectly robust and serviceable item. Let's not forget that the joinery stresses on an item like this are pretty trivial compared to what a chair must withstand!

 

[DuncanA]

Thanks for the replies guys, I think I've got a better idea of how to work it now. Will hit the drawing board and then maybe try a mock up of one corner just to make sure! The bolting option does also appeal for portability, I may investigate options

...
By a lucky co-incidence I'd previously used a test piece from this style of desk to illustrate a question on how to lay saw cut veneers.

Thanks for the photo too Custard, really handy!

All the best,

Duncan

 

[thetyreman]

off topic but can you tell us more about that lamp custard? I like the look of that very much, was it something you made to match the table?

 

[custard]

off topic but can you tell us more about that lamp custard? I like the look of that very much, was it something you made to match the table?

The lamp was an apprentice exercise from when I was training, It's octagonal in cross section and is made almost entirely with a spokeshave and a card scraper. Some of the curves are right at the limit of what is achievable with a spokeshave, and the transition from long grain on the stem to end grain on the base is tricky to execute cleanly.

I seem to recall the target build time was forty hours but it wasn't until I'd made two or three that I got anywhere close to that.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Custard, that is a lovely table and chair. From the second picture it looks like you made the top and legs from two different kinds of wood (or two different cuts of the same kind?) yet you ended up, presumably after staining, with a harmonious whole. How did you manage that?

 

[Eric The Viking]

The lamp was an apprentice exercise from when I was training, It's octagonal in cross section and is made almost entirely with a spokeshave and a card scraper. Some of the curves are right at the limit of what is achievable with a spokeshave, and the transition from long grain on the stem to end grain on the base is tricky to execute cleanly.





I seem to recall the target build time was forty hours but it wasn't until I'd made two or three that I got anywhere close to that.

You prompted a big wave of nostalgia with that post, Custard.

My grandfather (a sawmill owner and timber merchant in Haslemere) often used to get reps from timber importers turn up with exotic samples. He collected these, glued them together and then made candlesticks and lamps by turning and/or shaping them on the bandsaw (they called their "small" Wadkin "the jigsaw" because it had a small blade -- only about 3/8" -- throat depth was about 15" from memory).

I remember a pair of octagonal lamps made that way. Sadly I can't post any pics: the lamps disappeared, as things do, and my sister has the only pair of candlesticks we still have (I think). And anyway yours are made with far, far more skill than his were! But looking at the pictures I'm in awe of the skill involved in achieving that!

Back at the table mechanics, I can see how the bottom rails of the original example (in this thread) would greatly strengthen the frame, but I'm not sure it's a very practical way to do this. They'd be caught by feet, vacuum cleaners, chairs and so on, and I'd expect them to be damaged and disfigured quickly in any location that saw a lot of people traffic. And I'd certainly not want to be the person who made the first mark accidentally!

You'd also have some difficulty on un-level surfaces like the floors of older properties (like ours!), as packing the legs relatively invisibly becomes much harder, and anyway, if you do set the desk level, which you really need to, it would show up the slope(s) of the floor, and if there was a hump in the floor that fell in the middle of that rail, then you're pretty stuffed: packing everywhere!

And we have floors just like that, with humps about 1ft out from the walls. The joists extend through the load-bearing walls into the rooms next door (they're not trimmed flush), and over the years the floors have sagged, so the unloaded ends stick up above the correct line. We take off the excess when we renovate each room, but it's been like that for so long, it doesn't always solve the problem (and anyway the floors are still significatly dished overall).

So I think I can now guess why this isn't a popular style...

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I need to make a desk, and rather liked the look of the first one. But I think the drawbacks listed are probably real. And - for a modern desk, it will probably have a computer on it at some point, and deep aprons, drawers etc mean you can't address a keyboard terribly well.

 

[Lons]

Beautiful work on both the table and lamp Custard. =D>

You're more forgiving than me though as I would have said something pretty harsh to a bloke who suggested he wanted to kick one of the legs off the table.
He's jealous of your skills I guess so maybe it's better to feel sorry for him.

Bob

 

[custard]

From the second picture it looks like you made the top and legs from two different kinds of wood (or two different cuts of the same kind?) yet you ended up, presumably after staining, with a harmonious whole. How did you manage that?

In the second photo the desk is made entirely from Sycamore (in the first photo the desk is entirely in Swiss Pear), the legs just look different because they're vertical, where as every other component is horizontal so reflect the light differently.

You often see the same thing in case furniture where the horizontal rails look a different shade to the vertical stiles. It generally appears more stark in photographs, in real life the eye seems to accommodate the difference without any problem.

 

[Andy Kev.]

That's an eye opener. The pear is lovely, by the way. Did you leave the sycamore unstained or did you go on to treat it?