Helical cutterheads

[gasman]

Been away from the forum for a few months having moved house. No workshop as yet but should be up and running in a couple of weeks. 12'x24'x6" concrete slab is down and just waiting for power and the workshop to arrive.
I have a C26 combination machine which I had from new bought in 2008 and which has done me sterling service. It is in my garage at the moment and I have taken the opportunity to take it into its component pieces, clean and service etc. It weighs 250kg so I will not assemble until I carry the individual components down the garden.
I have recently been wondering about changing the cutter block for one of the helical ones and I wonder if anyone has any experience of that? They are meant to be much quieter and better finish. There is a US company Bryd Shelix which I think does one which would fit for $800 and I have asked for a quote for shipping etc.
I do not have the money or the room for separates and for what I do the C26 is pretty good. It should be much better actually as I should be able to access all sides of it in the new workshop
Thanks all - nice to be back
Mark

 

[PAC1]

Mark

i have read mixed reviews, mainly fitting to Felders, but reports varied from perfection to disaster.

 

[marcros]

one of these days, i plan to put a byrd head on my axminster thicknesser. One of their off the shelf ones looks like it will fit, but the shipping and duty make it a bit much unless i bring it back from a trip.

 

[Doug B]

I have one on my thicknesser & the finish is so much better than the standard blades on my surface planer that I allow 1 mm over on sizing & then re run the surface planed sides through the thicknesser on timber for doors etc.

I was demoing the block to 3 friends on Saturday they all seemed impressed with the finish & how quiet it is, I'd definitely have one on a surface planer if I was to change my machine.

 

[James-1986]

Mark

i have read mixed reviews, mainly fitting to Felders, but reports varied from perfection to disaster.

I've never seen one in "real life" only on the web. I have seen some pictures of some very weird machining defects. I'm curious as to how you keep an eye on how sharp it all is, with a knife you can easily find damage and dull spots but with those helical heads it must be hard to keep track of unless you turn all of the spurs to keep it cutting evenly?!

If I could afford it I'd put a tersa block on my overhand and thicknesser, bored of setting knives.

 

[gasman]

Thanks all - seems like not too many people have them over here - so for example if you put in 'retrofit helical cutterblock' into Google all you get is US hits for the various US manufacturers of them. I will wait to hear back from Bryd but I imagine as you say Marcros that the shipping and import duties will make it too expensive

 

[Doug B]

Mark, if you're ever up Nottingham way & want to see the block in action you'd be welcome to drop in, just PM me, cheers.

 

[gasman]

Many thanks Doug - I will store that away. Still waiting to hear from Byrd Shelac how much to get one from them
M

 

[Eric The Viking]

Peter Sefton hasn't commented, but he demonstrated one at an open day last year. I was there.

The results were outstanding in my novice opinion.

They have a number of obvious advantages:
1. Superb finish - it's a shearing cut so tearout is far less, and planer marks would be arguably less visible.
2. Reduced power requirement and much less stress on drive train and cutter block bearings.
3. Less and different noise* (because of (2) ).
4. Vastly reduced downtime - if you nick a blade you know where: find it and turn or replace only that cutter, with no need to hone or strip the cutter block.
5. Ought to be more economical in the long run - you only replace the cutters that wear, so wear in the middle of the block (across the cutting width) isn't as much as an issue.
6. Because the finish is so good, it ought to reduce stock prep time.

On the design side, because the drive roller force would be a lot less for a thicknesser, you might use less agressive rollers - not so sharp roller teeth (or rubber rollers) means thinner passes are practical. So the thing becomes more precise and more useful. Obviously not so relevant if you use a drum sander for dimensioning, but still...

If I was doing woodwork commercially, it would be a no-brainer as a preference, but whether I actually did it would depend on the capital cost for my machine (and the cost of the replacement cutters). I believe they're not reusable presently, although given the dimensional precision necessary, that's understandable.

E.

*The noise of a planer is actually percussive (impulse noise) and usually dangerously loud (even with small units). It's the most dangerous sort of noise for causing hearing damage. A spiral block changes the nature of the noise as well as reducing the loudness - both are better for hearing safety.

 

[bugbear]

Curiously, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever made a cylinder lawnmower where the cutter wasn't spiral.

BugBear

 

[Eric The Viking]

Curiously, to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever made a cylinder lawnmower where the cutter wasn't spiral.

BugBear

I thnk the main advantage must be the low effort required to get it to cut (relatively speaking).

Even assuming you could do it (and I can't see how, because of the second, straight knife along the bottom), you probably couldn't push a cutter with straight knives because of the effort needed...

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I had the fielder one demo'd earlier this year and I just couldn't believe how quiet it was. Very tasty indeed but they're not cheap of course. Practically I also loved the idea of being able to change just a small number of errant blades. Also because each blade had four sides you have four bites at the cherry before you actually need to replace anything

 

[bugbear]

I had the fielder one demo'd earlier this year and I just couldn't believe how quiet it was. Very tasty indeed but they're not cheap of course. Practically I also loved the idea of being able to change just a small number of errant blades. Also because each blade had four sides you have four bites at the cherry before you actually need to replace anything

All the cost analyses says they're cheaper in the long run (lower sharpening costs), just a stunner of a capital cost.

BugBear

 

[noddy67]

Did you end up going ahead and replacing the cutterhead with a Byrd one? If so how has the experience been?

 

[gasman]

No they wanted over a grand for the cutter head before factoring in import duty VAT, etc etc so I am using my old faithful

 

[James-1986]

The finish is heavily dependant on the quality of the machine and the quality of the knives. My Wadkin RZ wth a two knife block running carbide knives gives a fine finish. I'd say its a waste of money putting an expensive cutter block on a 'cheap' planer. I'd really like Tersa blocks, setting up knives is time consuming.

If I were you I would invest in some good quality carbide knives and a diamond slip stone to keep them sharp.