Heights and boundaries

[pike]

I've just been talking to the York council planning people for guidelines as to what I can build without needing to apply for permission.

They said that if it is within 2 meters of a boundary then NO PART of it can go above 2.5m. So you can't just be clever with the pitched roof etc :?

 

[Pete Robinson]

It may be worth considering the planning permission route, it may seem scarey and costly but its really not that difficult.

I had to do it when I built my new workshop, I did the drawings myself (you don't need an architect) and it cost me £139, the last thing you want to do is spend loads of money building something and then get told to take it down!!

If you want any info send me a pm.

Cheers

Pete

 

[pike]

Cheers Pete.

Our council has a form just for asking if permission is needed. That costs £30..

I'll either just go for what I want and make a full application as you say, or leave a ridiculously large 2m gap all around.

 

[Pete Robinson]

Have a look here:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1011888236124.html

I found this really useful when building my workshop.

 

[pike]

Thanks. I see that I might have confused building regulations and planning permission. Building regs say up to 30 square meters and 1m away from boundaries.

Planning is the one which talks about 2.5 height if within 2m of boundary.

Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.

Maximum height 2.5 metres within two metres of a boundary.

This is worded differently from what my local council emailed. It doesn't make sense that (according to them) anything which has any part of it 2m or less from a boundary, has to remain at 2.5m high even when it is more than 2m away.

 

[GreenBoy]

Pike

What is the actual wording they used?

personally i am impressed that the council responded - i emailed mine over a year ago regarding building a shed, and never got any response other than to confirm receipt and that someone would get back to me... even after chasing - nothing. So something is good at least.

If this rule is correct because of the narrowness of my garden it means i cannot have anything bigger than 3m wide right in the middle of my garden...

 

[pike]

Hi GreenBoy,

This is what they said:

- the height of the structure would not exceed 4m if it had a dual pitched roof, 2.5m if it any part was positioned within 2m of a boundary, or 3m in any other case
- the height of the eaves would not exceed 2.5m

However, it was just guidelines based on assumptions as I didn't give my address.

Everywhere else I've read isn't worded quite like that, so I asked for confirmation about a pitched roof beginning below 2.5 and not going higher than that until it was over 2m from the boundary.

The response was that very clear that NO PART of the building can exceed 2.5m, if ANY of it is within 2m of the boundary, regardless of a pitched roof.

It could well be that different councils interpret the rules in different ways.

2m is far too much space to waste (even in a decent sized garden), so I will probably have to make an application.

There is the option of a £30 quid enquiry form, but all this does is say yes or no and is not formal (which I think is a rip off).

Hope that helps,
Pike

 

[Escudo]

I seem to remember mention being made that the 4 metre measurement is taken from the highest point within 1 metre of the building, which must be 2 metres from any boundary. Is this a correct interpretation :?:

Tony

 

[pike]

I don't quite understand that Tony.

If the building is 2m away from any boundary, then I can go to 4m. The thing is, most people don't want to waste 2m around the boundary. I was hoping I could begin the building about 1m from the boundary, lower than 2.5, and go higher than 2.5 at a ridge which is more than 2m from the boundary. Clear as mud

 

[Escudo]

Yep, I'm with you.

I had similar thoughts for the location of my planned new workshop. The 2.5 metre rule applies when your within 2 metres of the boundary and as you say in most situations location would be as near to the boundary as possible to save valuable garden space.

I have found a spot which is well over 2 metres from all boundaries at the top of my garden. The interesting issue in my situation is that I can now go 4 metres high. But from what point do I measure the 4 metres?

I seem to remember mention was made that the highest point within 1 metre applies. There is a bank with a retained wall behind the shed which is 2 metres tall. In theory I can therefore go up to 6m high, if my understanding is right.

I am going to check with the planning people to be sure.

It is frustrating when for various reasons one can't position a shed in the perfect place.

Cheers, Tony.

 

[Tom K]

If the building is 2m away from any boundary, then I can go to 4m. The thing is, most people don't want to waste 2m around the boundary. I was hoping I could begin the building about 1m from the boundary, lower than 2.5, and go higher than 2.5 at a ridge which is more than 2m from the boundary. Clear as mud

How about a lean-to woodstore erected after the main structure is completed in the 2m gap? This is what I intend to do if I get beyond the mulling stage :lol:

 

[pike]

Tony I see what you mean, I hadn''t even thought about where you measure from.

Tom, yeah it'd just have to be storage for firewood or something. Although I'd much rather set the shed as far back as I can because of other things going on in the garden. You're at the same stage as me there

 

[Tom K]

Would this 2m be measured from the walls of the structure or off the roof
envisaging some jobsworth measuring from the edge of a gutter :lol:

 

[9fingers]

I can only assume this is something special imposed by the local council.

Under 'permitted development rights', a non residential building can be built without PP up to 3m height with flat roof or 4m with pitched roof provided it is more than 5m from any dwelling and 20m from the road.

Building control permission is not required below 30 sq metres but if within 1 m of the boundary must be fire resistant (1 hour I think).

I produced sketches compliant with the above and took it to the council offices and got a verbal OK but if I wanted a written confirmation they would charge £50.

The only exception to PDR I'm aware of is within a conservation area.

Bob

 

[Jake]

It's probably in here somewhere:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=18624

 

[Oldman]

Building control permission is not required below 30 sq metres but if within 1 m of the boundary must be fire resistant (1 hour I think).

Bob

Pretty sure I read it as if you build within 1mtr of the boundary the building must be substatially of non combustible materials. I thought the idea being that your wooden shed could if alight set fire to next doors home but if it was say a tin shed its less likely.
Not that you couldn't fill it full of gas bottle and tins of paint etc...

 

[Tom K]

This is the blurb causing the consternation.....

Under new regulations that came into effect on 1 October 2008 outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

•No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
•Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
•Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse

It seems to say that PP is required if height exceeds 2.5 metres and closer than 2 metres don't know if it applies to my plot because it's a piece of land in adverse possession so doesn't have anything on it.

 

[Jake]

Ah OK, I had forgotten there was new planning stuff - comes of only looking at it for personal reasons. I'll have to go and read it!

 

[Dibs-h]

because it's a piece of land in adverse possession .....

Are you saying you don't own the plot and it's not registered to you? In which case I'd be wary of doing anything with it.

A chum went to court several years ago, where a neighbour believed an extra couple of square meters were his, in addition to what was shown on his own deeds, by way of adverse possession.

I was in court that day and the judge made it clear that gaining land by way of adverse possession was highly unlikely. The loosing party got saddled with bills in the region of 35k and paid rather rapidly when repossesion proceedings started on his house (which had no mortgage).

 

[Tom K]

because it's a piece of land in adverse possession .....

Are you saying you don't own the plot and it's not registered to you? In which case I'd be wary of doing anything with it.

A chum went to court several years ago, where a neighbour believed an extra couple of square meters were his, in addition to what was shown on his own deeds, by way of adverse possession.

I was in court that day and the judge made it clear that gaining land by way of adverse possession was highly unlikely. The loosing party got saddled with bills in the region of 35k and paid rather rapidly when repossesion proceedings started on his house (which had no mortgage).

Well the land has been used by previous owners of my house since the 1940's at least.
The only access is via the private service road to the rear of my property.
My next door neighbour has been succesful in obtaining the title to the plot behind his property and I am 7 years into my claim.
Can't remember the legal name basically it belongs to the Crown and must be claimed from them. I am not garden snatching :lol:
It will take another 17 years to get Freehold title though.
Thats an awful lot of workshop time