Heating thermostat in the hallway

[Pedronicus]

The downside is I came home the other day and the missus had turned the heating up to 28 in the bedroom because it was a bit chilly when she was putting away some clothes but forgot to turn it off! So all of my energy saving attempts were just chucked out the window

We used to call that "User Interface Error"!

 

[Spectric]

Having watched a couple of his videos I think I will stick to my 50+ years experience in the heating industry thanks.

But just think how much work people on you tube like the heat geek create, it gives the pro's the task of putting these jobs right later.

 

[John Brown]

But just think how much work people on you tube like the heat geek create, it gives the pro's the task of putting these jobs right later.

Are you saying he's giving duff information? I have watched a couple, and was interested in the notion that since condescending boilers work more efficiently at lower temperatures, there is an argument for longer on-times with a lower circulation temp.
Interested, because it goes against all traditional wisdom re heat gradient/heat loss etc.
If you think he's giving out incorrect information/advice, I'd like to hear your specific objections.

 

[sirocosm]

Ideally it would be nice to have each room on its own zone. The simplest way to achieve that is probably with TRVs (smart or not) and a buffered heat source.

 

[Stevekane]

For me, having the thermostat in the living room wouldn’t make sense. We have a log burner and are self sufficient in logs. This would simply turn off CH to the rest of the house.

Similar situation, so i fitted a TRV on the rad and bought a cheapish Horstmann wireless stat, the main part is wired in and the adjustable display t/stat part is free standing, so you could if you want put the “thermostat” part in another room whilst the trv takes care of the rad.

 

[Spectric]

If you think he's giving out incorrect information/advice, I'd like to hear your specific objections.

What I am saying is that because anyone can have a channel then you need to tread carefully because not everything is correct or good advice and you need to do collective research to give what you see some validity.

Condensing boilers work most efficiently when they are in condensing mode and to achieve this the return flow to the boiler needs to be 50° C or less so therefore your output flow temperature has to be lower which then means you need larger radiators to achieve the same heat output for a room. The reason for needing the lower return temperature is because it can then extract more heat from your flue gases in the secoundary heat exchanger, reducing the flue gas temperature causes condensation and hence condensate and therefore reducing wasted energy out the flue. Now reducing your flow temperatures will reduce the heat output for a given radiator size and increase the time to reach the required temperature so doing nothing for efficiency. A problem has been that people with houses using radiators sized before condensing boilers will run higher flow temperatures to get the heat output and the boiler may only condense whilst it initially brings the system upto temperature and the return starts to exceed 60° C.

Old days, flow was around 80° C with radiators dropping 20°C and so return was 60° C and buying a radiator you used delta 60 but now with lower temperatures you size radiators on delta 50 and using cast iron radiators is one way to get heat with lower temperatures.

 

[John Brown]

But just think how much work people on you tube like the heat geek create, it gives the pro's the task of putting these jobs right later.

Ok, I have to say that he probably knows a lot more about heat pumps than most "pros".

 

[Spectric]

Having watched https://youtube/tZlB_O54D48 regarding the the ABSURD True Cost Of HEAT PUMPS it does make a lot makes sense because it is a relatively new technology that may go the way of betamax. I think that given the chance then the first issue to be addressed is not how to heat a home but make the home fully insulated and thermally efficient so as it's heating needs are greatly reduced but has the government made any attempts at changing the building regs so this can be delivered and not just more of the same along with heating issues ?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I can understand if the flow temperature from the boiler is reduced to ensure the return temperature is lower, condensing efficiency increased.

This only becomes an issue (I think) in heating performance as:

• in cold weather radiator output may be too low to achieve the set room temperature. The solution - increase the flow temperature. This may not change boiler efficiency greatly as in cold weather the radiators and pipework will anyway lose more heat.
• at other times with a lower flow temperature the room will take longer to reach the desired temperature from switch on, and the boiler will have to operate for longer periods at the reduced flow temperature.

 

[Spectric]

at other times with a lower flow temperature the room will take longer to reach the desired temperature from switch on, and the boiler will have to operate for longer periods at the reduced flow temperature.

This really depends upon the system because it could be that the thermostat cuts the boiler as another room / area has reached temperature but that other room has not and there is just insufficient heat to get it upto temperature and as you say people just turn up the boiler temperature so it does but it may just be a case of swapping a single panel rad for a double whilst keeping the same length. When I was doing a bathroom and it was not being heated, it did make the hallway colder because unless I shut the door the heat just went into the colder room.

 

[Spectric]

Here is one to watch, skill builder versus heat geek

 

[Geoff_S]

How is your average punter (me) expected to know all this stuff?

Over the years I have tried I think, every tip/trick suggested. Combination boilers, condensing boilers, TRV’s, boiler flow control, house zones, radiators various, underfloor heating, insulation overload, thermally lined curtains, double glazing, heating on all the time, heating on schedule, blah blah blah.

The only thing that has remained the same after 28 years in this house is the eye watering gas bill.

 

[John Brown]

How is your average punter (me) expected to know all this stuff?

Over the years I have tried I think, every tip/trick suggested. Combination boilers, condensing boilers, TRV’s, boiler flow control, house zones, radiators various, underfloor heating, insulation overload, thermally lined curtains, double glazing, heating on all the time, heating on schedule, blah blah blah.

The only thing that has remained the same after 28 years in this house is the eye watering gas bill.

Indeed. I've fitted wireless TRVs(13 of them), and kept all the room temperatures to the bare minimum. It looks like we're using about half the gas we were last year(looking at the figures Octopus supply on the website), but the bills are higher. When the "help" runs out we'll be burning the floorboards from under the kitchen table.

 

[Spectric]

What does help is getting a decent heating engineer to advise on the best system and not just get them to throw in a combi boiler but just like a boat it has to be better to fix the leaks rather than just keep bailing out the water, insulation is your best freind and look at that as an investment and ensure all windows are upto scratch and if fitting new ones get ones with good thermally efficient spacers, often black and not aluminium.

 

[Skydivermel]

Head office at home always complains she's cold and ramps up the heating but has all the bedroom windows open for fresh air. I told her the other day that I'd start chucking a £5 note out of the bedroom window every night and I think she cottoned on.

 

[Stevekane]

My friends daughter has recently had an Air Source Heat Pump fitted, she got a govt grant towards it, but I think it still cost her £7000, they had to upscale some rads and fit a megaflow style large cylinder and have warned her not to expect the rads to get very hot,,,and to leave it running continuously..
I have an uneasy feeling that its going to provide background heat rather than keeping her and the kiddy warm and Im very intrested to find out what her experience with it will be. I will post an update in a month or so.

 

[Pedronicus]

I think the main problem for people who are looking to replace their boiler with a heat pump is that they are not being told by some companies selling them that it will be almost certainly necessary to fit larger radiators to achieve the same room temperatures that they have been used to with the boiler.*

Also there is the nasty shock of getting a larger electricity bill to run the thing bearing in mind the difference in price per kWh between gas and electricity.

* This, to a lesser extent, also applies to upgrading from a standard boiler to a condensing boiler.

 

[Fergie 307]

Head office at home always complains she's cold and ramps up the heating but has all the bedroom windows open for fresh air. I told her the other day that I'd start chucking a £5 note out of the bedroom window every night and I think she cottoned on.

my argument in similar circumstances was that I may as well put a couple of radiators in the b****y garden !

 

[Bingy man]

Thanks all, I know that I’m not going. I suppose my only stickler is all landings are cold because I’ve got the rads set to very low. This means that the there is no hot air to rise and naturally heat the rooms but I’m good with that as we only heat the rooms that we need.

On another not for people who have Nest. - how many of you have auto schedule switch on. I have it off as I want to be in total control when things are on and off. In addition i she. tado TRVs which act as nothing more than a dumb valve since I’m using nest however it means that I don’t have to run up and down my town house every time.

I have the hive thermostat and it’s set to manual as I only switch heating on when I’m home or on my way home , if I’m working at home cleaning or in my workshop stat is set to 17deg, but if I’m chilling out I’ll up it to 20 deg .

 

[Spectric]

I have the hive thermostat and it’s set to manual as I only switch heating on when I’m home or on my way home

This has always been a big question, is it better to leave the system on and keep a minimal temperature or let it free fall. Thinking of the physic's it takes less energy to raise a temperature from 20° C to X rather than 5° C to X . I use a Honeywell thermostat that allows you to program in six time periods each with it's own setpoint so I keep an overnight temperature of 15°C which rises to 17° C at the time we get up and 18.5° in the evening .