Hawthorn

[Richard Berry]

I was given a hawthorn stump which I have sawn up into manageable lengths and debarked. I have a few questions regarding it and it is not easy to find information online and none of my books makes any mention of it. I have found a few discussions about the American variety but not the British Isles variety.

My questions are:
1) How do I dry it? It was felled some months ago so fungus has started to take hold. I used a diluted chlorine bleach spray to suppress the fungus. I intend waxing the ends once the logs have lost their surface moisture, perhaps by this weekend.
2) The wood seems very good with a fine texture. I intend to use it on my lathe and to make some small wooden screws, as would be found on marking/panel gauges. Is hawthorn suitable?
3) Would I be able to cut some of the green wood into turning blanks to speed the drying, or would I risk spoiling it?
4) Anyone who has previously used hawthorn, any comments, advice or tips?
5) Are their any health issues associated with hawthorn?

 

[Racers]

Hi Richard

I have used Hawthorne quite a lot both for turning and tools and tool handles.
It's a bit bland for turning, or the bits I have are.
It has interlocking grain so it can be hard to plane, ships blocks used to be made from Hawthorne so it's strong.
I had no health problems working with it.
I made a pair of wedged marking gauges with it and they are lasting very well.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Don't know about Hawthorn itself but in general hedgerow stuff is best left with bark on and full length, in a dry but cold environment e.g. back of a well ventilated shed and above the floor.
But if you know what you are doing with it you could cut it to blank size and start turning but be prepared to leave it to dry, before finishing off. It may distort but if small enough may not split. Don't accelerate drying as this may cause splits

 

[Tris]

It is prone to splitting if left whole so you might want to halve it lengthways to take some of the tension off.
A good, hard wood for turning small parts. You can always use superglue to strengthen it for smaller threaded items.
There was a useful thread on here a while back about fungus and what temperature and moisture content it requires, can't find it at the moment but I will keep looking.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/air-dried-oak-for-outdoor-chairs.125656/post-1395409
Edit: found it! Hope this may be a useful starting point

 

[Phil Pascoe]

According to Gabriel Hemery in The New Silva it's good for inlays, small turnery, engraving (an alternative to box), and hard wearing things like mallets and the teeth of mill wheels. It spalts nicely as well. I have some lined up for pens.

 

[Richard Berry]

It is prone to splitting if left whole so you might want to halve it lengthways to take some of the tension off.
A good, hard wood for turning small parts. You can always use superglue to strengthen it for smaller threaded items.
There was a useful thread on here a while back about fungus and what temperature and moisture content it requires, can't find it at the moment but I will keep looking.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/air-dried-oak-for-outdoor-chairs.125656/post-1395409
Edit: found it! Hope this may be a useful starting point

Thanks. That made very interesting reading. There was a lot to take in, and no doubt I’ll revisit it to attempt to internalise some of it. It is heartwarming how helpful people are and how generously they share their hard won knowledge. Much appreciated.

 

[Richard Berry]

According to Gabriel Hemery in The New Silva it's good for inlays, small turnery, engraving (an alternative to box), and hard wearing things like mallets and the teeth of mill wheels. It spalts nicely as well. I have some lined up for pens.

I have seen it referred to as the poor man’s boxwood. I have a penchant for making mallets, so no doubt, there are a few in the future with this lot. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been so liberal with the bleach and left one or two of the logs to develop some spalting.

Here are a few examples of the mallets I enjoy making. The reclaimed brass fittings add a lot of heft and I like the look of them too.

 

[Richard Berry]

Hi Richard

I have used Hawthorne quite a lot both for turning and tools and tool handles.
It's a bit bland for turning, or the bits I have are.
It has interlocking grain so it can be hard to plane, ships blocks used to be made from Hawthorne so it's strong.
I had no health problems working with it.
I made a pair of wedged marking gauges with it and they are lasting very well.

Pete

Thanks for the info Pete. I’m really happy with what you describe since my usage will be more utilitarian than decorative.

 

[jcassidy]

@Richard Berry love the mallets, got any for sale when this damn lockdown ends?

 

[Richard Berry]

@Richard Berry love the mallets, got any for sale when this damn lockdown ends?

I might be persuaded.

 

[Richard_C]

There may be an opportunity to sell a VERY VERY BIG gavel to the US speaker of the House.

Anyway, Hawthorn. I cut a small one out of my hedge, 2 were close to one another so one had to go. Maybe 6 inch diameter. Still in store, but I took a section and turned a small bowl green, microwaved, remounted and finished. Not exciting but nice creamy white, good to work, was able to give my neighbour (other side of hedge) a peanut serving bowl 12 hours after he gave me access to his side to do the cutting. Not that I needed to, we all help each other out and I'm normally in credit because I own drain rods, and the map of where the drains go.

 

[Richard Berry]

Not that I needed to, we all help each other out and I'm normally in credit because I own drain rods, and the map of where the drains go.

I hope that you supply the rods and map only. Supplying the labour too would mean that you are owed big time.

Also, insisting that the rods are returned clean would also be part of any bargain if I were in your shoes.

About 20 years ago I lived in a house where a mulberry tree had managed to get its roots into the drain pipes. At least twice a year I employed my rods. I left them behind when I sold the house and I've never needed them since. Hopefully the new owners held onto them.

I still remember the unpleasantness of the task.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Hawthorn is absolutely the best carving timber of all for very fine detail, I actually prefer it to box and hornbeam but be careful of inclusions. I cut as much as I can, split it and seal the ends carefully with pva, then leave in a cool space. Be aware narrow pieces can move a lot as they dry. This link, hopefully shows something of what the wood can do, the face is carved in end grain.
https://stuckinthemudsite.wordpress.com/2017/01/04/tiller-to-brest-the-finale/

 

[Richard Berry]

Hawthorn is absolutely the best carving timber of all for very fine detail, I actually prefer it to box and hornbeam but be careful of inclusions. I cut as much as I can, split it and seal the ends carefully with pva, then leave in a cool space. Be aware narrow pieces can move a lot as they dry. This link, hopefully shows something of what the wood can do, the face is carved in end grain.

That is stunning work. The logs definitely have some bark inclusions, hopefully I can deal with them when I split the logs. I normally seal the ends with paraffin wax, is PVA the better option? If I split each log into quarters, will that suffice? I will be keeping them in my attic workshop for now where it remains between 5 and 15 degrees C until the end of April. After that I’ll have to find an alternative, but they should have lost a lot of moisture by then. The stump is from a tree felled last winter.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Paraffin wax should be fine, split them to the size you need them, halving is often enough, quartering is better, my timber store is in the same temperature zone as yours and I do get some minor shakes but they rarely more than 6 inches deep

 

[Owd Jockey]

I use Hawthorn for a range of small things, usually utilitarian. Even though it is stored in a dry environment with bark left on and the ends sealed with wax, it is still prone to deep vertical cracking. I generally turn green now, and microwave dry with constant checks for incipient cracks and subsequent CVA repair. Although quite a bland wood in appearance it has a lovely salmon pink hue, which is difficult to retain throughout the finishing process.

 

[kevinlightfoot]

Love Hawthorne and love the mallets !

 

[Daniel.l]

I chopped down some whitethorn as we call it. The tree has white flowers a certain time of the year I'm not sure is that the same as hawthorn but the timber you have looks exactly like mine. Its really tough I have used it for two knife handles and a saucepan handle. They look great they had some of that brown barked integrated. I have mine drying for two years and it did split quite a lot but there is still a lot of usable timber. It turns a golden colour with age. I found it a nice timber to work with shaping the handles but its very tough it was blunting my chainsaw chains very quick

 

[Cooper]

I was given some bits of pyracanthas which I sawed down the middle to stop it splitting. It’s a lovely creamy colour and seems quite hard. I was wondering if I might be able to make a locket or other similar small pieces from it. If I was to turn it I have no idea how to hold it on the lathe. Is there anyone with any advice out there? I got the idea for the locket when I came across one that must have belonged to my great-grand mother. I have no idea what it was made from though it felt wooden. I'm not up to the carving but a plain two part one might be practical.

 

[Keith 66]

My son carted a section of hawthorn trunk home from the woods, 8" dia & we sawed it lengthways then quarter sawed it on the bandsaw into 1" slabs, air dried under the house for two years. Its a lovely timber but as said can warp badly when drying. It tends to grow with the grain in a spiral fashion & in our case some of the slabs dried out like aeroplane propellors!
But its nice to work & very hard.
It is said to be the fairies timber & unlucky to cut one down, we are ok as the council parks dept cut our one down!