Harrison L5 Metalworking Lathe (1950) Teardown & Overhaul

[Dellbert]

I have an old L5 with listed speeds of 273, 382, 614 & 960 in the 'high' range and 42, 60, 96, &150 in the 'low' range. It currently has a 60hz 1 phase 2 hp motor installed as I moved it to the UK from Canada. My shop is currently single phase as are all of my machines. The lathe was 'balanced' at 2 hp. More power would have been nice but not really necessary for the light work I do. The previous owner did a lot of work using aluminium and ground cutting tools that I just don't understand but work well. I don't really need more speed as I don't think the machine is up to it. Could you please recommend a suitable 1 phase replacement motor (& pulley) for this lathe.

I was in the same situation as you needing a replacement motor for a wrecked single phase , ive gone for a 3 phase and a vfd ,the vfd came frome a mate (or will do when i pick it up ) and the motor (arrived today ) came from The AC Electric Motor Specialists - AC Electric Motor now they do inverters and are more than helpfull (i know less than nothing re motors ) they actually recomended a motor £4.00 more than the one i thought but a straight swap (saving time and more spends on modifications) and 10% off on first purchase (allready £20 cheaper than the rest ) and free 3 day carriage ..

I DONT WORK FOR THEM BY THE WAY

 

[Sideways]

I have an old L5 with listed speeds of 273, 382, 614 & 960 in the 'high' range and 42, 60, 96, &150 in the 'low' range. It currently has a 60hz 1 phase 2 hp motor installed as I moved it to the UK from Canada. My shop is currently single phase as are all of my machines. The lathe was 'balanced' at 2 hp. More power would have been nice but not really necessary for the light work I do. The previous owner did a lot of work using aluminium and ground cutting tools that I just don't understand but work well. I don't really need more speed as I don't think the machine is up to it. Could you please recommend a suitable 1 phase replacement motor (& pulley) for this lathe.

If you look on lathes.co.uk (HARRISON LATHES L5A, (9" & 11") Later Models) you will find the following summary of the motors and speeds offered on the L5
"
On all models 8 spindle speeds were normally available (16 on lathes with 2-speed motors) with the range most commonly found on second-hand L.5/L.5A/140 machines being 31 to 720 r.p.m. However, various other options were available over the years including:
21 to 480 rpm - 1000 rpm 3-phase motor with an input speed to the headstock of 500 r.p.m. - common on early machines and also used on later ones in conjunction with a low-power motor for safety in training establishments
31 to 720 rpm - 1.5 hp 1500 rpm motor
42 to 960 rpm - 2 hp 1500 rpm motor
62 to 1440 rpm - alternative range with the 2 hp 1500 rpm motor
31 to 1400 rpm - 16 speeds: two-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
62 to 1400 rpm - 16 speeds: alternative range with two-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
22 to 500 rpm - 1 hp motor
34 to 750 rpm - 1.5 hp motor
45 to 1000 rpm - 16 speeds: 2-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
34 to 1500 rpm - 16 speeds: alternative range with 2-speed 1.5/3 hp 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
A few lathes were also made with a special "high-speed" headstock that gave 45 to 2000 rpm from a 2-speed motor. The clutch on higher-speed model (and the 140) was supported on two ball races - instead of the single roller bearing employed on the single-speed motor versions. However, there appears to have been no difference in either the size or quality of the headstock gears and only one bush, on the layshaft, was shown in the Parts List as being different. There appears to be no reason, therefore, why the top speed of the slower models cannot be safely increased to around 1500 rpm to make them very much more useful (see below).
"
So take your pick and fit a 2HP (1500W) 4 pole (1500rpm) single phase motor or a 2.2kW version. Whichever you choose, make sure you adjust the DOL starter to match the motor full load current. If you aren't familiar with this, get help.

Depending on your choice of motor the spindle size will differ.
Read my 2nd post and you will be able to see the Dunlop 3 groove taper lock pulley that I used and how this is close enough in profile to work with the original upper drive pulley.
You just order the right size taper lock bush to fit the pulley onto whichever spindle size you have.
If in doubt, ring the supplier. The guys at bearingsRus, bearingboys, etc are all helpful and will see you right.

The challenge as always will be to get the correct length belts such that you can slacken off enough to get them on the pulley and tight enough without the motor spindle hitting the edges of the belt cover. Make your best estimate but don't be surprised if you have to buy a second set of belts to get it right.

 

[Fergie 307]

Good advice from sideways. The other way around the pulley issue, which I used on mine, is that the replacement motor I used had a larger diameter shaft. I just bored out the original pulley, and cut a new keyway to suit. If you have the means to do this, or know someone who can, this is a simple way of doing it, and will help avoid the need to change the belts. The other good thing about these machines is the motor mounting, which lends itself to various motors being fitted relatively easily. Easiest of all of course of you can find one with the same mount as the one that is coming off. You can easily identify the high speed shaft as it has a clutch with six pins around the circumference. If it's an early machine then very unlikely to have this, but still safe enough to increase the speed for hobby use, just make sure the bearings on the clutch shaft are in good nick.

 

[Housey210]

The motor that came with the lathe was a fine, British made, item but hadn't been properly connected. Thanks to the cables being taken into the top of the terminal box with no gland to seal it, I was able to tip half an eggcup full of brass turnings out of the inside of the motor. Surprisingly this hadn't damaged the windings though both the armature and stator carried a few scratches from brass between the moving surfaces. I dislike painting over a painted motor so a deal of time was spent with a wire wheel stripping it back for repaint, then new bearings and reassembly. Sadly after all that work the motor ran well but with a little more vibration than I wanted. I decided to replace the motor so it was primed, boxed up and sent to a new home. In excess of Hermes's 20Kg limit the postage cost rather a lot.

View attachment 126074



View attachment 126076

The replacement was a little used top quality ABB 4 pole 2.2kW motor.
View attachment 126079
Many Harrison lathes hang their motors simply on the back of the machine using sliding brackets. These are a cast part and not exactly flat.
They went on the mill and had the slots, top surfaces and feet milled flat straight and square.
View attachment 126077
View attachment 126078
The motor mounted nicely but the spindle only just cleared the end cover so two lengths of tube were drilled and tapped to serve as stand offs

View attachment 126080

View attachment 126082

Much better. A new motor with a metric shaft required a new pulley. This is a taper lock type by Dunlop. Three rather long thin belts are used. The upper pulley is original and imperial, but I found that a metric SPZ profile is a close enough fit that the motor pulley and belts in that profile would work happily with the original upper pulley.
View attachment 126081

View attachment 126083

Ebay provided a good 2.2kW VFD to match the motor and we were ready to spin it up.

I like the SY cable

 

[Sideways]

I think SY is a fair choice for this kind of application. The part I really like are the brass cable glands with a rubber compression washer so you can get a really good dust proof seal and mechanical grip on the sheath of the cable. They also clamp the braid so no chance of pulling out the cable.

 

[Dellbert]

hi
after finding one bolt loose and one bolt with no nut what is the procedure for matching bed to machine please

 

[BrianatBisley]

If you look on lathes.co.uk (HARRISON LATHES L5A, (9" & 11") Later Models) you will find the following summary of the motors and speeds offered on the L5
"
On all models 8 spindle speeds were normally available (16 on lathes with 2-speed motors) with the range most commonly found on second-hand L.5/L.5A/140 machines being 31 to 720 r.p.m. However, various other options were available over the years including:
21 to 480 rpm - 1000 rpm 3-phase motor with an input speed to the headstock of 500 r.p.m. - common on early machines and also used on later ones in conjunction with a low-power motor for safety in training establishments
31 to 720 rpm - 1.5 hp 1500 rpm motor
42 to 960 rpm - 2 hp 1500 rpm motor
62 to 1440 rpm - alternative range with the 2 hp 1500 rpm motor
31 to 1400 rpm - 16 speeds: two-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
62 to 1400 rpm - 16 speeds: alternative range with two-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
22 to 500 rpm - 1 hp motor
34 to 750 rpm - 1.5 hp motor
45 to 1000 rpm - 16 speeds: 2-speed 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
34 to 1500 rpm - 16 speeds: alternative range with 2-speed 1.5/3 hp 1.5/3 hp 1500/3000 rpm motor
A few lathes were also made with a special "high-speed" headstock that gave 45 to 2000 rpm from a 2-speed motor. The clutch on higher-speed model (and the 140) was supported on two ball races - instead of the single roller bearing employed on the single-speed motor versions. However, there appears to have been no difference in either the size or quality of the headstock gears and only one bush, on the layshaft, was shown in the Parts List as being different. There appears to be no reason, therefore, why the top speed of the slower models cannot be safely increased to around 1500 rpm to make them very much more useful (see below).
"
So take your pick and fit a 2HP (1500W) 4 pole (1500rpm) single phase motor or a 2.2kW version. Whichever you choose, make sure you adjust the DOL starter to match the motor full load current. If you aren't familiar with this, get help.

Depending on your choice of motor the spindle size will differ.
Read my 2nd post and you will be able to see the Dunlop 3 groove taper lock pulley that I used and how this is close enough in profile to work with the original upper drive pulley.
You just order the right size taper lock bush to fit the pulley onto whichever spindle size you have.
If in doubt, ring the supplier. The guys at bearingsRus, bearingboys, etc are all helpful and will see you right.

The challenge as always will be to get the correct length belts such that you can slacken off enough to get them on the pulley and tight enough without the motor spindle hitting the edges of the belt cover. Make your best estimate but don't be surprised if you have to buy a second set of belts to get it right.

Great information! I have used bearingsRus and bearingboys for various pieces before and their prices are very good. I will have a good look at what is going on behind the lathe and see if I can take some measurements. Thanks very much!

 

[BrianatBisley]

I was in the same situation as you needing a replacement motor for a wrecked single phase , ive gone for a 3 phase and a vfd ,the vfd came frome a mate (or will do when i pick it up ) and the motor (arrived today ) came from The AC Electric Motor Specialists - AC Electric Motor now they do inverters and are more than helpfull (i know less than nothing re motors ) they actually recomended a motor £4.00 more than the one i thought but a straight swap (saving time and more spends on modifications) and 10% off on first purchase (allready £20 cheaper than the rest ) and free 3 day carriage ..

I DONT WORK FOR THEM BY THE WAY

Thanks! I am determined to convert my General Woodworking Drill press to 3 phase with a VFD as all of the speeds are too fast for most work. I was thinking about leaving the lathe single phase as I am not sure about running it much faster than the 1000 ish RPM I can get now. It gets a bit noisy in the gearbox. I will look at AC Electric Motor Specialists.

 

[Dellbert]

Thanks! I am determined to convert my General Woodworking Drill press to 3 phase with a VFD as all of the speeds are too fast for most work. I was thinking about leaving the lathe single phase as I am not sure about running it much faster than the 1000 ish RPM I can get now. It gets a bit noisy in the gearbox. I will look at AC Electric Motor Specialists.

give them the number from the old motor and they will sugest an easy fit replacement

 

[Fergie 307]

Thanks! I am determined to convert my General Woodworking Drill press to 3 phase with a VFD as all of the speeds are too fast for most work. I was thinking about leaving the lathe single phase as I am not sure about running it much faster than the 1000 ish RPM I can get now. It gets a bit noisy in the gearbox. I will look at AC Electric Motor Specialists.

The Harrison machines were famously noisy. Unlike most machines at the time they have hardened steel gears in the box, they are very strong but do tend to sing when you get up to the higher speeds

 

[Dellbert]

my carriage lock on my l5 is missing totally and there are some tapped holes un used under the carriage any idea?