Hardpoint v Standard

[GazPal]

I use hard points for all manor of site work, where I wouldn't want to use my grandfathers saws. Like the other day I had to trim an external corner on some skirting to allow a cabinet to fit, the previous woodworker had used a nail gun, and I rather think he thought it was a machine gun. The hard point just cut through with little damage to the blade, I don't have time to be peeing about sharpening a saw blade on site, so the hard points are perfect for this kind of work. But for cutting clean timber, my grandfathers saws take some beating, old S & Js.

I think the saw used daily depends fairly heavily upon what was being used when a person first entered the trade. S & J, Disston and Sandvik were the go-to saws when I first apprenticed and re-sharpening tools was simply par for the course both on site and in the workshop whilst having 10 mins over a cuppa and a cigarette. This pre-dated the influx and common use of power tools, as well as government scheme/six month apprentices "diluties", but hard points tended to be frowned upon as pieces of disposable kit that would jam and shed teeth at every given opportunity. Great back then for rough work such as trimming-in, but what was then available tended to be more like bargain bin quality than what's on offer today.

The commonest piece of power tooling on site back then tended to be the odd chainsaw used when nogging out.

One thing I have noticed is how joinery targets/prices have remained fairly static - if not reduced - since the common influx of power tool usage. What's the timescale allowed for hanging an external door now (Incl trim up, letter box chop, mortise lock and yale fit) on site? The target used to be 6 hours per external door using plane, brace and chisels.

 

[GazPal]

Maybe it's time we did tune our saws more to the work we usually do?

How should saws be filed and set for work in predominantly dry, temperate hardwoods? Should that be different for harder timber? What about softwoods? Should non-hardpoint saws ever be allowed near chipboard or MDF?

Saw sharpening and setting are an aspect of the trade that's been done for millennia, but only recently - seemingly - forgotten. Matching saw set to technique and materials in use isn't too difficult, but yes, set, rake and fleam play a major part in how a saw responds during use. Makers such as Spear and Jackson, Disston, etc., used to produce leaflets outlining saw maintenance, so a little research may be in order, but a very general rule is lower rake, less set and more tpi will tend to handle hard woods better than soft woods.

A basic set of 3 - 4 saws is all you tend to need initially.

26 - 28" rip
24 - 26" cross cut
20 - 24" cross cut panel for use on manufactured board/finer materials.
12 - 14" tenon saw filed cross cut for the front 4" and rip for the remainder of the blade length.

 

[mtr1]

I use hard points for all manor of site work, where I wouldn't want to use my grandfathers saws. Like the other day I had to trim an external corner on some skirting to allow a cabinet to fit, the previous woodworker had used a nail gun, and I rather think he thought it was a machine gun. The hard point just cut through with little damage to the blade, I don't have time to be peeing about sharpening a saw blade on site, so the hard points are perfect for this kind of work. But for cutting clean timber, my grandfathers saws take some beating, old S & Js.

I think the saw used daily depends fairly heavily upon what was being used when a person first entered the trade. S & J, Disston and Sandvik were the go-to saws when I first apprenticed and re-sharpening tools was simply par for the course both on site and in the workshop whilst having 10 mins over a cuppa and a cigarette. This pre-dated the influx and common use of power tools, as well as government scheme/six month apprentices "diluties", but hard points tended to be frowned upon as pieces of disposable kit that would jam and shed teeth at every given opportunity. Great back then for rough work such as trimming-in, but what was then available tended to be more like bargain bin quality than what's on offer today.

The commonest piece of power tooling on site back then tended to be the odd chainsaw used when nogging out.

One thing I have noticed is how joinery targets/prices have remained fairly static - if not reduced - since the common influx of power tool usage. What's the timescale allowed for hanging an external door now (Incl trim up, letter box chop, mortise lock and yale fit) on site? The target used to be 6 hours per external door using plane, brace and chisels.

I hope not, the first saw I used was a pit saw and frame saw back in 89' 8) . But for general work in the cabinet shop I used old S & Js, bought from boot fairs and sharpened them myself. Mainly because I couldn't afford a new anything on apprentice cabinet maker wages. I think when I went self employed and onto price work, I stopped having breaks on site, and to this day I don't take them. I'm only talking of site work of course which might be only once/twice a month, and have no problem using and sharpening a good saw in my shop. I am of course talking about when a machine or power tool can't be used that is, my wife and children need supporting after all, and if a machine will do the job faster I use that, end of.
If I take my good saws on site, there is a good chance I would use them for things I probably shouldn't, so they stay in the shop.

I don't know what the timescale is for hanging a front door, but the last one I did including taking out the old frame and fitting a new one, took me till 3:30 p.m.. I don't know if this is acceptable for a carpenter doing this day in day out, I suspect not.

 

[Sawyer]

Interesting - a bit of a rootle round the American websites suggests quite a lot of experimenting going on with saw-tooth configuration, giving some spectacular results in circumstances ideal to a given combination of rake, fleam, slope and set. There seem to be people witha saw for every eventuality - ripping dry, thick hardwood, thin hardwood, thick not-so-dry softwood, thin ditto, cross-cutting dry thick... well, you get the idea.

Trouble is, most of us can't, or don't want to, afford a saw for every specific circumstance. So the manufacturers, not unreasonably, set their saws up to cover the full range of possibilities it might meet in the hands of different customers. So probably plenty of set to cope with not-very-dry softwoods, and filed more for long life between sharpenings than for speed of cut. Most of us don't experiment much, so don't know any different.

Maybe it's time we did tune our saws more to the work we usually do?

How should saws be filed and set for work in predominantly dry, temperate hardwoods? Should that be different for harder timber? What about softwoods? Should non-hardpoint saws ever be allowed near chipboard or MDF?

A while ago, I experimentally sharpened my 26" 7 tpi Tyzack 'Nonpareil' according to an American book: The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee, on whose advice I ended up with something resembling peg teeth. It works tolerably well, but next sharpen, due shortly, and I'll be re-shaping so more orthodox c/c tooth shape.
During my college days, the best saw in the cupboard was a Sandvik, with nice blade but a nasty plywood handle. This saw had similar teeth - rather 'peg' like and worked very nicely.

Out of interest, how often to other people need to sharpen saws which are in everyday use? Other posts suggest that this was perhaps a weekly occurance in days of yore, though I've never had to do it nearly so often.

 

[GazPal]

A while ago, I experimentally sharpened my 26" 7 tpi Tyzack 'Nonpareil' according to an American book: The Complete Guide to Sharpening by Leonard Lee, on whose advice I ended up with something resembling peg teeth. It works tolerably well, but next sharpen, due shortly, and I'll be re-shaping so more orthodox c/c tooth shape.
During my college days, the best saw in the cupboard was a Sandvik, with nice blade but a nasty plywood handle. This saw had similar teeth - rather 'peg' like and worked very nicely.

Out of interest, how often to other people need to sharpen saws which are in everyday use? Other posts suggest that this was perhaps a weekly occurance in days of yore, though I've never had to do it nearly so often.

Sometimes you'd find yourself re-touching teeth daily depending on the timber in use, other times it could be once or twice weekly.

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In the past, one would tend to take more care of tools and avoid neglecting them by pulling/punching nails below surfaces and taking more general care. It doesn't take any more time to work carefully and you'd typically carry a few beater tools among your decent kit.