Hard decision, need help! Hegner 2S or Ex 21

[Alexam]

You may get some help by phoning Axminster head office at Axminster to explain your situation and ask if you can buy the Ex16 and get them to pack it in 3. They may not wish to do that, but you could try. You would need to understand how it goes together. At the same time you could enquire what the situation would be if you needed spares when home.

Anything like this would need to be cleared by the airline as they would need to approve of large metal items in luggage and may not allow it.

Malcolm

 

[Valld]

Thanks for your imput Malcolm , its already tested, for the last 8 years i did move in my luggage 2 mountain bikes, a big cast iron juice press(about 15 kg), bass speaker 30cm diameter and some other havy metal staff.Never had a single problem. This will be the heaviest item i move from BG to Botswana, but as soon as I stay within the 30kg limit per piece I don't expect any problems with it.

 

[AES]

Malcolm's right if you go for the Axi - in my own experience they tend to be very helpful and flexible.

Personally I'd go for the air freight option Valld, not hand carrying in 3 parts, whatever saw you buy in the end. If buying from Axi I would imagine they'd help with additional packaging if necessary, they seem to be a very helpful company, though no doubt Hegner are good too, I just don't know.

And shipment (air freight) by a courier such as DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc, and with insurance ("declared value").

I don't know about Hegner, but if buying the EX/Axi, personally I would definitely not split it into 3 - I'm not suggesting you are a dummy but from the drawings in the Manual it doesn't look at all easy to reassemble, and in any case, surely that would void the Warranty?

And for spares I'd buy what you think you need at the same time as buying the saw and have them all shipped together at the same time as the saw.

HTH

AES

Edit for P.S. Air freighting "a lump/s of metal" is not a problem, it's done all the time. And if using a courier as above, or a decent forwarder, it'll go through all the security checks and you'll be asked to sign a declaration to add to the Air Way Bill anyway. I shipped all sorts of "lumps of metal" all over the world many many times and usually items a lot more fragile and MUCH more valuable than any scroll saw. Go about it the right way and it's not a problem. Frankly I think breaking the saw down into pieces and shipping with you as baggage (cabin or hold) on the same flight is a daft idea, sorry.

 

[scrimper]

I have no experience with the EX21 but I have owned a Hegner 2S variable which I bought in 1999, So I can offer my experience of the Hegner if it's any help to you.

I was dubious of paying quite a lot for a Hegner when I already owned a Diamond saw however once I had tried the Hegner I found it an absolute joy to use and at first could hardly walk past the saw without switching it on to hear it's gentle 'buzz'. The Hegner is superb to use it is powerful yet very quiet and vibration free it purrs away and you get a feeling of the quality of the thing when you use it, you get a feel good factor that you don't get when using other machinery.

Some people question blade changing on the Hegner but I can only assume they have not tried one because it is the easiest and simplest thing to do, after a few goes you can change blades with your eyes closed, especially if you use the quick clamp and the quick blade tension release fitted (both essential IMHO) I do lot's of internal cuts and it takes a fraction of a second to flick up the tension lever, twist the blade clamp knob and whip the blade out and into the next hole. To be honest I can't think of anything they can do to improve the blade mechanism.

I use my Hegner practically every day mostly for general woodworking rather than intricate fretwork and it still works perfectly with no signs of any wear after 17 years, they are simply bullet proof.

Whatever saw you buy I would suggest 4 things that are essential....
1) Quick release blade clamp
2) Quick release Blade tension (if you do lots of internal cuts this is 100% essential)
3) Variable speed (IMHO essential with thin materials or delicate cutting)
4) Quiet vibration free running (you will come to dread using a noisy vibrating saw)

Hegner were largely responsible for the interest today in Scrollsaws, Helmet Abel was granted a world wide patent in 1974 for his saw blade suspension design which led to the Hegner saw going on sale in 1975, the saw today is little changed except for a few improvements, but if you have a good product why change it.

My only negative opinion of the Hegner is the initial cost of the machine, but you do have to pay for quality and you will soon forget what you paid whereas if you buy a cheaper one everytime you use it you will wish you had bought better! Hegner spares are also (IMHO) way too expensive but on the plus side you won't often need spares.

The only thing that has ever gone wrong with mine was the tiny on/off switch which failed after about 15 years, Hegner wanted £24 for this switch which was ridiculous especially when it is a standard mini rocker switch easily available practically anywhere for around £1!

I can quite definitely recommend the Hegner saws.

John

 

[Valld]

Thanks AES, I just received an email from Axi, I ask them if they can ship straight to Botswana, that would be the perfect solution, but unfortunately they kindly refused - see below:

"Dear Mr Dimitrov,

Thank you for your email enquiry.

Please accept my sincere sincere apologies but due to carrier restrictions we are unable to deliver to Botswana. If you have an alternative address that we can deliver these goods to please advise, alternatively you can also arrange for your own carrier to collect the items from us and deliver the goods.

Again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience this may cause. If I can be of any further assistance please advise. "

Al least I tried .

I also asked them about buying spare parts, but they didn't answer to this, probably because the answer came from the Export Department. I'm a bit worry about the spares because unlike all Hegner distributors Axy does not list any spare parts for purchase on their web site, I will write again to the customer service department .....

Regarding the disassembly of the Ex I'm pretty confident I can disassemble and assemble the saw in it's 3 major components in less than 10 minutes. I have almost 20 years experience in servicing all king of printers, plotters, servers, PC's and indefinite number of laptops, not to mention all home appliances like washing machines, toasters, ovens, vacuum cleaners and not on the last place my garage tools like electric screwdrivers, table saw, jigsaw, bandsaw...... I'm not sure if I like more working with scroll saw (and all other woodworking tools that I have) or fixing and improving them (the cheap ones) and making all king of jigs and attachments. I just like machinery and always want to know how exactly one device is working/ is assembled.

 

[Valld]

Thank you John, I really like both machines (Ex-16 and Hegner 2S) and still deciding which one to get. I hear you and your input is highly appreciated!

Could you please tell me your opinion about the difference between Hegner 2S and SE? Does it worth paying 110 Euro premium for stainless steel table? I believe your 2S is with the aluminum table?

 

[AES]

Another P.S. for Valld.

1. I'm sure scrimper is quite right about what he says about Hegner - in an earlier post I said that personally I think there's nothing to choose between Hegner and Excalibur when it comes to quality, performance, and longevity, your choice will be based on price and feature differences between the two.

2. Re shipping, if you search this Forum (not Scroll Sawing but Tool Reviews or General Woodworking, I can't remember which) a UK member here called "sunnybob" I think, bought a band saw, I think from Axi, and had it airfreighted to his home in Cyprus. The courier had a problem with finding his actual address in Cyprus, but the advantages here (compared to shipping it himself as own baggage) was that A) the vendor of the saw (Axi I think) helped sunnybob to sort it out, B) sunnybob knew exactly where it was all the time - including all the wrong places!, C) the courier involved came good in the end, and D) the goods were insured and if they had disappeared altogether he would have got a new saw - in the end!

You cannot say any of the above about one of your bags if that goes missing or gets broken into.

And my guess is that Hegner, being a perfectly reputable company, would be just as helpful about arranging air freight as Axi would be.

I can understand your wish to take advantage of your (very generous) 3 x 30 Kg baggage allowance, but honestly, my strong advice would be "don't do it".

AES

Edit for another P.S. OK, if Axi's shipper can't/won't ship to Botswana find a freight forwarder (ideally a consolidator, it'll be cheaper) ideally near to Axi's base (or Hegner's) who will pick up from the vendor and road/airfreight/road it to your address. Where are you right now? Check Yellow Pages, the internet, or airlines serving Botswana to find a suitable forwarder - your local airline itself may well be able to do it, although of course then they'll work through a local corresponding forwarder nearby to Axi or Hegner.

 

[scrimper]

Thank you John, I really like both machines (Ex-16 and Hegner 2S) and still deciding which one to get. I hear you and your input is highly appreciated!

Could you please tell me your opinion about the difference between Hegner 2S and SE? Does it worth paying 110 Euro premium for stainless steel table? I believe your 2S is with the aluminum table?

Mine is alloy and I am perfectly happy with it. it is a pretty solid lump of alloy, personally I would not pay the extra, I don't see the need for it, in any case many of us fit a supplementary wooden table on top, the main reason for doing so in my case is to make the table a little larger and to have a smaller blade hole to support delicate pieces when cutting.

There is a picture (of sorts) of my sub table here post905866.html#p905866 also you can see my modified quick clamp here too!

 

[stevebuk]

i may just be selling my hegner shortly if i get this job i am after, will let you know soon..

 

[Valld]

What is your Hegner Steve? Please give some details or links to other threads. I tried to search your posts to find out..... Not easy, 2658 posts

 

[Lons]

I could possibly be interested in your Hegner as well Steve though might come a bit late for me as I'm going to look at one of the new AXI EX21 machines they're bringing in for me to inspect on Friday.
Obviously Valid would have first refusal.
Bob

 

[Valld]

No problem Lons, I'm not in a hurry at all, but I'm interested, especially if Steve can ship it straight to Botswana . Please let us know about that AXI EX21 that you will meet on Friday.

 

[Lons]

No problem Lons, I'm not in a hurry at all, but I'm interested, especially if Steve can ship it straight to Botswana . Please let us know about that AXI EX21 that you will meet on Friday.

Will do.
I phoned the local Axi branch manager who initially said they wouldn't be in to the shop until the end of March but some gentle pressure soon made him push HO to get a couple on the next truck North. :lol: I haven't committed even though one has my name on it as I won't spend that kind of money without seeing the machine.

I think some of the guys on here already have their hands on one so will be interesting to see opinions.

Bob

 

[dzarek1410]

Hello
Its my first post so Welcome everybody(However reading here all the time)
I would like share my experience with Excalibur ex-21
I bought it on February last year and already died
Im scrolling every day as its my full time job and give 700 pounds for new and reliable machine wasn't any problem(90% work is done on 12mm thick MDF)
Machine had so many problems so will list below
2 weeks after buying-Broken PCB Board
5 weeks later-Motor died
about 2 months later -Another Motor died
Few months later-Rocker cam snapped
Few days later rocker cam issue another problem with bearings in new cam
Some time later another problem with bearings sliding from motor pin
And above that machine had heavily cracked under adjusting knob which cause problem with properly tighting blade
Bottom holder had huge loose
Some small issues like falling down blower or heavily scratched table even is not worth talking
So after just 13 months and few weeks catching dust Ive sent it back and ordered Hegner so hope will be more lucky this time.
On the end want say about outstanding Axminster service which ALWAYS offered good and quick help
Hope that will help somebody when decide what to buy

Thank you

 

[Valld]

Wellcome Dzarek and thank you for sharing your experience, even the new ex 21 is probably refined version of yours, I'm getting more and more convinced that I will have to buy Hegner. I feel very sorry for your bad luck with the Ex 21 and I wish you will settle down happily with the Hegner. Which model Hegner did you buy?

 

[dzarek1410]

Hi
Ive ordered Hegner Multicut Quick Scrollsaw Variable Speed and currently speaking with them about increasing top speed possibility -Read somewhere as its possible.

 

[scrimper]

Hi
Ive ordered Hegner Multicut Quick Scrollsaw Variable Speed and currently speaking with them about increasing top speed possibility -Read somewhere as its possible.

You have made a good choice, I guarantee you will not be disappointed with the Hegner. it is simple, free of pointless gimmicks and built as strong as a brick chicken house!

 

[Valld]

Great choice Dzarek, for someone with scrrolling as a full time job this sounds like the best choice. I think i've already decided to go with a Hegner and I like the multicut 1 very much for its light weight and small size, but few things bothers me about this model - its cutting thickness capacity is lower than the higher models, the maximum stroke is smaller and its advertized as ' Perfect choice for the ocational hobbyst'. Having the same 100 watt motor as its bigger brothers i was expecting the same specifications except the troat capacity, but they are not. So I will probably go with the 2s , it has everything I will ever need. Still have a few months to decide ....

 

[dzarek1410]

Funny is as when last year looked for new saw Ive knew already how Hegner good is but decided go for Excalibur for better , quicker blade changing and slighty faster.How bad decision that was !!!!
I have pretty old saw ,probably older than me (38) and construction look very similar to hegner and in fact it had many issues over time but nothing which cant fix myself without spare parts so hope hegner will be same.
If any one are interested itsnt true as is possible increase their top speed-sadly

 

[Valld]

I'm not sure if the speed can be increased. I remember reading somewhere that it's possible with sending the saw to the manufacturer, but cannot remember where I saw this. It's interesting that the American Hegners are coming with higher speed - 1700 strokes per minute, and Europeans with 1400. Maybe something to do with the different voltage. If I find some information about this I will post it here.