Hand scraper sharpening angle etc.

[Jarviser]

As a self-taught hobbyist, even following teachings of the old testament prophet Charles Hayward, I have struggled to produce shavings from a hand scraper, mostly only "dandruff". I have even tried letting down the hardness of scraper blades to get a decent lip. I have the best Clifton burnisher and I was an engineer by profession so I know metal. I recently bought an old Stanley number 80 from a local flea market, sharpened the blade at 45 deg on my Tormek, stoned and burnished, and set up as per my old "Planecraft" book, and hey presto it bit into the wood with a satisfying Shhhhh and took off perfect gossamer shavings. So I thought :idea: why not sharpen the hand scraper at 45 deg - which I did and got similar good results. What is the catch, apart from CH spinning in his box? :?: Does anyone else use hand scrapers at other than 90 deg, or :?: can anyone else recommend a good hand scraper blade?

 

[Chris Knight]

Japanese scrapers have a bevelled edge but it is impossible to turn a burr on them as they are so hard - if you try, the edge just crumbles. You have to sharpen them - freehand with care - more like a fragile curved ('cos they have a slight curve) plane blade if you can imagine this.

When sharp they are lovely to use but the sharpening thing is a pain so I tend only to use them where I need a delicate touch and the edge lasts longer.

 

[bugbear]

What is the catch, apart from CH spinning in his box?

One obvious catch is that you only get 1 working/cutting edge per side of scraper instead of 2 (front edge/back edge)

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Jarviser

Yes, I do the same.

As an alternative to your card scraper, try reversing a chisel and scraping with this. It should also produce gossamer shavings, proving you do not need a burr.

My #112 has a 30 degree bevel since this produces a sharper edge than 45 degrees.

I do, however, have burrs on all my card scrapers. As BB has stated, this has a big advantage in being able to hone multiple edges.

The procedure I use is the same as described in this article:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00007.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MikeW]

...

My #112 has a 30 degree bevel since this produces a sharper edge than 45 degrees.

Regards from Perth
Derek

Sharper...or stronger ???

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Sharper...or stronger ???

Hi Mike

My #112 is a vintage Stanley, but the blade is a LN (the "Stanley Replacement" version). It is used without a hook.

The original bevel was 45 degrees. This did not get "sharp" and I struggled to produce the shavings I felt it should. This may have been a stronger edge but it still did not get "sharp" enough for my liking. So I reduced the bevel to 30 degrees. This gets "sharp", produces gossamer shavings, and the steel is strong enough to hold the edge for sufficient time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MikeW]

Oh I was just being nit-picky.

Thing is, even a 90 deg edge can be "as sharp" as one of lesser angle.

Cutting properties (angle of edge, angle of the blade to the wood, etc) and how they interact are another thing.

I'm just drinking my morning coffee and thought I would keep you on your toes.

Mike

 

[Alf]

Jarviser, if it works for you then why not? I often use a spare #78 iron I have skulling about for the odd scraping task. Shame you couldn't get the burr going though; although far from an unusual problem, as winessed by the number of "how to's" about the place.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Jarviser]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I will try a few different angles and steels. I have found the #80 is great for taking the machine ripples out of veneered ply before final sanding and polishing - I use it for box lids. The scraper seems more controllable than the sander, and kinder on the neighbours. I must admit I never put an edge on the opposite sides of card scrapers. I tend to injure myself, same with the 2506 side rabbet - I know the other edge is there but I always put my hand on it anyway!

 

[Anonymous]

Jarviser

I originally sharpened at 15 degrees until Waterhead told me that 5 was the more common angle. Both worked fine :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Last summer at a local galoot gathering we were discussing hand scrapers. Jr. Strasil set one up with a 45º bevel, honed it, and put a light burr on it. He used it a very acute angle to the board, pulling it toward himself while holding it in one hand. It cut wonderful shavings in highly figured maple. I've been doing this myself since then. I've found the one handed hold doesn't leave the dips you can get when bowing the scraper with your thumbs.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I've been doing this myself since then. I've found the one handed hold doesn't leave the dips you can get when bowing the scraper with your thumbs.

Hi Roger

Yes!

I often feel a lone voice in advocating that a card scraper should be pulled towards oneself if your goal is to smooth a wide area, and only pushed away when you are removing tiny sections of tearout. At the last sharpening workshop I ran I recall an experienced Galoot grabbing a newly-sharpened card scraper and enthusiatically pushing it away with his thumbs and creating a nicely scalloped surface.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Frank D.]

But you can also just widen the space between your thumbs (i.e. hold the scraper with your thumbs farther apart) to get less camber (uh oh, that word again...) in the scraper. I hate it when the corners dig and doing it this way seems to avoid that, still letting me get wide shavings, at least for me.

 

[David C]

The early L-N 112 scraper plane info suggested trying the blade with 60 degree polished sharp edge and no burr.

I have always used a 45 degree sharp edge and burnished a very delicate hook at 75 degrees.

Slightly cambered blade, is also a help, no tracks.

If you set the blade at the same forward lean, 20 deg., as the Stanley no. 80 it works really well.

I am fairly sure that the adjustability of the blade angle, and lack of precision of angle, when turning the hook, are the issues which give people trouble with the 112.

Many instrument makers use a 45 bevel on their thin card scrapers and a huge variety of angles will work.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Alf]

I've been doing this myself since then. I've found the one handed hold doesn't leave the dips you can get when bowing the scraper with your thumbs.

Hi Roger

Yes!

I often feel a lone voice in advocating that a card scraper should be pulled towards oneself if your goal is to smooth a wide area, and only pushed away when you are removing tiny sections of tearout.

Heck, I do that; didn't even know it was something unusual!

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

I've been doing this myself since then. I've found the one handed hold doesn't leave the dips you can get when bowing the scraper with your thumbs.

Hi Roger

Yes!

I often feel a lone voice in advocating that a card scraper should be pulled towards oneself if your goal is to smooth a wide area, and only pushed away when you are removing tiny sections of tearout.

Heck, I do that; didn't even know it was something unusual!

Cheers, Alf

Ditto :shock:

 

[Aled Dafis]

I had loads of problems trying to get my card scrapers to work, so in the end I invested in the Veritas cabinet Scraper (improved Stanley 80)

Wow what a tool!!!!! and simple to use to boot.''

This gives a perfect finish virtually straight out of the box, it is now my finishing tool of choice - that is until I get my hands on the Veritas BUS.

Definately the best £35 I've spent on any woodworking tool, and I advise any of you that have problems using a card scraper to buy one.

(Having said this, I fully understand that more skilled woodworkers can achieve these results with the humble card scraper.)

Aled

 

[Anonymous]

No matter what planes you have, card scrapers and cabinet scrapers have their place in your shop.