Hand saw for tenon cheeks

[cliffhanger]

Hi

Can someone(who has had the misfortune to do it) recommend a hand saw for cutting large tenon cheeks? It has become increasing obvious that I am unable to do them by machine, so hand cutting is going to be the way forward. We are talking twin tenons in bt and mid rails for doors. Stock size 50 x 200 and 50 x 175 respectively. I have forty to do, i.e. five pairs of doors! I have done this sort of thing before, but I need a saw that's going to make mincemeat out of them(optimistic).

thanks

Cliff 8)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A router?

 

[undergroundhunter]

Either a 14" tenon saw (expensive) or a regular panel saw (cheap), I would probably choose the panel saw for the rip cuts and a tenon saw for the crosscuts not that it matters much.

Matt

 

[g7g7g7g7]

Sawing down cheeks is a lot of sweat, if the timber is relatively straight grained I'd recommend splitting with the widest chisel you've got for as many as you can safely get away with.

Otherwise you'd maybe need to go to a panel saw as a backsaw might not reach your depth. Other options are a Japanese style saw, the type with 2 sets of teeth on either side of the blade for ripping and cross-cutting with no back would be a good choice as it can make both cuts well, I have no idea what that particular type is called.

 

[MikeJhn]

A bandsaw with a decent large lead in table?

Mike

 

[RossJarvis]

Other options are a Japanese style saw, the type with 2 sets of teeth on either side of the blade for ripping and cross-cutting with no back would be a good choice as it can make both cuts well, I have no idea what that particular type is called.

That'd be a ryoba Saw. I've recently done a lot of tenons in oak with "Z Saw" rip blades which can give a very smooth finish, though it takes a fair bit of practice to get them accurate and placement of the timber can be awkward to get the stroke right for your arm. The problem with the ryoba saw is that the teeth on the opposite side can mark the wood on deep cuts so are better suited to smaller tenons, the cross cut teeth on the opposite side make it easy to do cheeks and shoulders quickly. Single sided blades are available but generally not cheap. I've found them to require little effort, but would hesitate to recommend someone to commit to using them on an important job with little or no practice.

 

[bugbear]

A router?

Yeah - either rout all the waste away, or make "some number" of cuts
(including the shoulder cut and tip) to create guides, and split,
chisel and plane away the rest.

The same way you make the even bigger tenon for a breadboard end.

BugBear

 

[cliffhanger]

Yes many thanks

I'm not so concerned with the shoulders, I have a decent tenon saw for those, and have done many. The cheeks are the things and I would need a big bandsaw which would be the first route.

I may try the router method to within a distance from shoulder. Had thought of that. This jap saw sounds interesting as well.

Cliff 8)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why to within a distance? - it's your opportunity to get perfect shoulders. Make yourself a zero clearance fence - a very useful bit of kit.

 

[RossJarvis]

Yes many thanks

I may try the router method to within a distance from shoulder. Had thought of that. This jap saw sounds interesting as well.

Cliff 8)

As I said, I did a fair few (about 30) tenons in seasoned oak a few weeks back. I use Z saws mainly, which are thicker and stiffer than many Japanese pull saws, which I like. (I got mine at http://www.woodworkprojects.co.uk/shop.htm )I find them to be very quick and they leave a very smooth finish. The downside is that they can take a while to get used to and you need to find ways to mount the wood as the action is different to using a western saw. In Japan they tend to put the wood on low saw stools and stand on the wood and cut vertically. I cut a small slot along the grain on the marked lines either side of the tenon to guide the saw, stand the wood up and cut across the end grain. That's not so easy on 9' beams. I can't rip on wood laid on a bench, though I've seen people doing this by crouching low on the ground and pulling the blade down onto them. It's debatable as to whether a proper western rip saw is or isn't just as good, in good fettle I'd say it probably is, but I think the Jap saws are a bit quicker.

As mentioned, you're likely to mangle a fair bit of wood getting used to them, and blades, they're not particularly cheap and work holding can be interesting. There are many ways to skin a cat and several alternatives at doing tenons, some of the other suggestions may well give you better results quicker.

 

[cliffhanger]

Thanks Ross that's some good info.

Not used those saws before. I've always mounted the wood at an angle in a good 'workmate' and worked from both sides of the tenon, so that there is an accurate cut both sides, then cut down the whole width down to the shoulder. I've used a sharp western saw of course.

I have an old(1979, they use to make them then)Elu router which I might try, with a new tunc. blade it would probably cut in one pass(1200w).

Cliff 8)

 

[cliffhanger]

Hell they're some weapons aren't they? What a collection.

A friend of mine who now owns Salisbury conservatories use to swear by the jap chiesels when he started out making beech benches. If the saws are as good as those then I would be in for a treat.

Cliff 8)