Hand planing hardwood - bad idea?

[profchris]

I didn't think about the grain....

Grain direction makes a huge difference!

Look at the edge to see which way the grain runs. In one direction you are planing into the ends of the grain lines, and your iron will try to dig in. Don't do that! Plane the other way.

Eg, for this board viewed at the edge (exaggerated), plane L to R, not R to L:

///////////////////////////

Sometimes you can't see grain direction clearly, or the board is being sneaky, so try the opposite way just in case.

 

[Molynoox]

Thanks people.
I will try sharpening the iron first, I remember seeing Matt estlea do a good video about this, about how to put that mild curve on the blade, that could help.
I may resort to a belt sander, that's a cool idea too.
might make sense to practice on a softer wood also, until I have some skills
thanks for the offer of a meet up too, 20 miles isn't that far, I'll see how I get on first

martin

 

[Jacob]

Thanks people.
.... mild curve on the blade, that could help.

Definitely. Is essential. a.k.a. "camber".
In fact planing anything wider than the plane, with a straight edge to the blade, is difficult.

I may resort to a belt sander, that's a cool idea too.
might make sense to practice on a softer wood also, until I have some skills

and edges of thin boards for practice

 

[Molynoox]

I have to admit, I did hit it with the power planer already, but I haven't given up on the hand plane...

 

[Molynoox]

Also, a question on work holding, is my below method 'normal'?:

Not sure if that's clear?

The bench is 45kg and was moving around allover the place.. I ended up putting in a brace against the leg and wall... That helped but it did make it want to topple a bit
I guess I could load up the shelf with something heavy

I'm so clueless

 

[paulrbarnard]

Also, a question on work holding, is my below method 'normal'?:
View attachment 149656
View attachment 149657
Not sure if that's clear?

The bench is 45kg and was moving around allover the place.. I ended up putting in a brace against the leg and wall... That helped but it did make it want to topple a bit
I guess I could load up the shelf with something heavy
View attachment 149658

I'm so clueless

Extra weight in the bench will help. I have three sacks of sand in a tray between the stretchers on mine. Even then I have screwed a couple of ‘planing stops” to the floor that the bench legs push up against.

On work holding I just use a stop on the bench and plane towards it, no clamping as that can bend thinner stock resulting in a bent panel once you unclamp it.

 

[D_W]

Also, a question on work holding, is my below method 'normal'?:
View attachment 149656
View attachment 149657
Not sure if that's clear?

The bench is 45kg and was moving around allover the place.. I ended up putting in a brace against the leg and wall... That helped but it did make it want to topple a bit
I guess I could load up the shelf with something heavy
View attachment 149658

I'm so clueless

Once you are good at planing, this may not be step 1, setting up the plane properly will allow you to plane through the length of a board in almost all cases (more efficient than planing across). You'll end up with your stock at the edge of the bench in front of you at the front edge of the bench on the vise end - opposite end of the front vise.

As far as stopping a light bench from moving, I probably planed 500 board feet of wood before breaking an early lightweight bench (from rough or mostly from rough) and the key to keeping it from moving is extending something off of the front of the bench into the wall (which may present some need to think about how that thing won't damage the wall)

Planing across the width of a lighter bench will be trouble no matter what.

In order to make my light bench more stiff - this is another option, I screwed plywood into the back legs up to the back of the bench, and the same thing on the front legs. it did wonders to make the thing far more rigid, and I put weight in the bottom of it (another 100 pounds) and what was a 125 pound bench suddenly acted like a much better bench *other than the vises*, which are what broke.

 

[Jacob]

Also, a question on work holding, is my below method 'normal'?:
View attachment 149656
View attachment 149657
Not sure if that's clear?

The bench is 45kg and was moving around allover the place.. I ended up putting in a brace against the leg and wall... That helped but it did make it want to topple a bit
I guess I could load up the shelf with something heavy
View attachment 149658

I'm so clueless

If you are right handed you could brace the bench against the wall by putting a length of something like a 2x4" in the vice, and butting it up against the wall
I'd be planing with the workpiece sitting loose, from right to left, against a square stop - not a round one, which is exactly the wrong shape, and metal not ideal either.
In the absence of square stop I'd bung in a couple of screws or nail down a lath or something.
PS basically you always plane right to left (or left to right) and not away from you.

 

[Ttrees]

Not much to add really, but I speculate you tried a few things,
and changed tack, possibly due to the wedge shape of the timber, and your dogs.

I reckon the same as all some sharpening required.
Should be able to cut arm hair without too much fighting, you don't need to
see a big pile of hair to get started though.
Might seem daft but many might argee, it's likely one of the best ready reckoners for an introduction of what sharp is.

Another assumption, but guessing it may have taken some effort/time,
so am suggesting having a look at the primary bevel/grind to see whether
it's gotten too steep and bottoming out, i.e the heel rubbing before the edge
is contacting the work.

If you want to buy yourself out of this problem, should you not have the kit already...
then a fresh grind from the bench grinder, will take any notion this may be at fault.
Then following up with a 5quid Eclipse knockoff will get one there.
Grind up-to the edge, but leave a band of previously honed steel, say 1mm
as grinding the edge would burn the steel, and if somehow not, leave a less than desirable result.

Be very careful with overheating the steel, I reckon this may be less forgiving in winter than summer, bluing still occasionally happens to me, aware that those corners being more partial to blue,
and seemingly more so with the laminated square topped irons.

If very nervous when getting close, then knock off the grinder and work the last bit with the wheel coasting,
Get comfortable and have a bucket close by
(I use a 2L bleach bottle cut in half with a stone)
to dunk the steel into at the speed of a Aldi cashier.

To make this easy to get your desired primary bevel, permanent marker the whole bevel and aim for the centre whilst hand turning the wheel, (provided you familiarize
yourself with how long the bevel should be on a Stanley iron)


Good to see you've not got any damage to your bench surface,
i.e you can still learn to do things the easy way.

There's a few ways to approach planing face grain using a simple stop for thinish work like this.
Plane up a length to use as a planing stop which won't get lost,
say around the thickness of those pieces would be somewhere good.
To make this simple, clamp it if necessary.

Once you've got this planing stop/batten, (it's not going to get lost now)
then you can choose from various thickness
bits of timber whatever you see on hand, to butt up against the new planing stop.
I have another kinda permanent panel below, (this panel isn't going to get lost either)
which is used for raising thin work, and you find something to suit it.

This planing board is also good for a planing stop for thicker stuff,
but another reason it may be advantageous is the fact it will scoot you away from the wall, which may be problematic with a longer plane, should you decide you like'em.

You could even use some sheet goods for supporting the work,
but I'd suspect the edges would get mashed for the use below.
Point being the sheet goods like melamine might be quite flat, provided its not sitting on a bump, and is resting on the nice unmarked surface,
so would likely show you the high spots making it easy.

 

[Ttrees]

Here's a video which is demonstrating an approach what could be called
something like...the flat bench surfacing method.
I suggest if trying this, you start with a rectangular piece no thinner than what you're working to get the hang of things
the latter is for omitting material deflection, so will assume both.




I have timestamped this to the use of the bench, where you may note
things like...
The work is plonked onto the concave face first, (it's not going to move/rock abou so much like an upside down plate/bowl) .... it may need one or two swipes to sit well.
Visible feelers with long reach angle poise lamp, i.e see where the work is touching the bench
Rocking, (corner to corner planing to eliminate twist)
Pivoting or rolling about on centre (swipes hollowing out the centre only)
Other hinging methods, i.e notable pivoting from ends, look up David Charlesworth's
stopped shavings, and definition of the straight edge, which I'll bring up in a bit.
Witness marking or burnishing, if unsure about where the high spots are, this can be done using the bench, such as Rob shows,
If suspect of the bench being that flat, (the shiny melamine I mentioned would show up)
One can make some parallel in length straight edges, with Charlesworth's youtube info, the length of the bench is best, rub them together to see contact,
Flip just one over to see if its not matching any possible bow.
One can get very accurate if they can't afford a nice spirit level,
You might see the use of graphite mentioned before to denote high spots,
That would show up high spots on the bench, (which is best dealt with later as you don't want that tearout you've experienced on the work)

I could mention the edge planing demonstration, the work is sufficiently thick to avoid deflection, but there is much emphasis of having such a flat surface,
and even as a bonus in one of his videos, where Charlesworth went to the USA to do a L-N gig, and partially flattened one of their benches for his video,
but didn't even demo such use of it in the end.
I'll bet he was bit miffed about that, or possibly with the lads distractions.


Come back when you get tearout, so don't go mad cambering your iron should you wish to use the plane as a smoother, i.e the more camber, the less the cap iron can do it's job, i suggest being able to have it certainly no greater than 1/32" away from the edge, ideally for a no.4, a tad less. (keep the mouth of the plane open)
Small pieces like that from the bandsaw, (provided they end up as nicely as that)
the smoother should be able to handle it without loosing too much efficiency.

You might also note the battering of the edge with the oak tearing out,
that won't happen if you use the cap iron.
I suggest getting dang well used to using it before taking the plane to the bench top,
as some guru's mentioned in recent postings for example, will not get you there with your plane,
but there are some other youtubers mentioned in the thread, who's advice on using your Bailey will give excellent tearout free results.
Nothing special needed, it's the key to doing work like that, so it can be treated like riven shingles,
i.e no fussing about and planing in rows regardless of knots or interlocking grain.

That's probably enough to send you to bed
Hope you've got your mug of tea

Cheerio
Tom

 

[Seascaper]

So I haven't really done any hand planing before but I decided to give it a go as I wanted to make a chopping board from some free offcuts.

-The offcuts are Oak and walnut.
-My hand plane is a cheap plastic handled Stanley
-I've flattened the sole and sharpened the iron

I found it amazingly hard work to plane the face of the wood flat after resawing.

is it supposed to be this hard?

View attachment 149628

Martin

Hello,
It is never going to be easy but there are ways of making it easier. Sharpen the blade. Adjust the blade to the correct depth, less is best. Secure the wood to the bench so that it is holdfast. Hold the plane correctly, and angle the blade to the work so that you are not pushing at 90 degrees in relation to work piece and grain. Look at the wood being removed, it should be clean cut and once level should be in long curls. Practice on a piece of scrap wood. Always place plane on its side when not using. Retract blade after use.
Good planing,
Regards

 

[dzj]

I have to admit, I did hit it with the power planer already, but I haven't given up on the hand plane...

All good advice above. If you follow it, you'll be planing in no time.
Although an invaluable skill to have, it gets old pretty fast.
Most folks will use some kind of electric device to do the grunt work.

 

[imageel]

Also, a question on work holding, is my below method 'normal'?:
View attachment 149656
View attachment 149657
Not sure if that's clear?

The bench is 45kg and was moving around allover the place.. I ended up putting in a brace against the leg and wall... That helped but it did make it want to topple a bit
I guess I could load up the shelf with something heavy
View attachment 149658

I'm so clueless

Hi Martin - only comment I'd make with respect your setup is that having such a large portion of the workpiece unsupported you will find that the workpiece will likely deflect by more than the likely depth of cut you should be attempting to take off. You could get around this by adding a scrap piece between the moveable jaw and move the far pin to the middle dog-hole on your bench so that the entire workpiece is supported by the bench.
To my mind this is where either holdfasts or a tail-vice and multiple dogs have some advantages, I chose the latter for my bench build and am lucky to be fairly ambidextrous and can plane quite proficiently with either hand. This was my newly built bench -

 

[Molynoox]

Ok well here is an update.

• I reground the edge on the plane and resharpened and stropped to best of my ability. It has transformed the plane and it's now cutting through the hardwood.
• Being aware of grain direction was also 100% critical, I was having to rotate the board around depending on which side I was planing as it was made of two bits of wood laminated together both with grain in opposite directions.
• Work holding is pretty much sorted now, I made a planing stop and held that in place with the dogs that came with the workbench. Originally I used a piece of cedar but this shattered under one of my heavy planing efforts and it's now been upgraded to walnut and works a treat.
• I also started planing along length of the bench instead of across and this has meant the bench is way more stable and hardly moves at all now.
• I practiced on the edges of the boards and this was a good tip as it was far easier than the face
• I'm generally terrible at planing I think, none of the edges were 90 and it took me ages to get them close enough for joining / laminating
• I made a thing - a sort of charcuterie board - and it's pretty terrible, I wouldn't pay a pound for it, but I learned a lot and hopefully the next one will be better.
• Hand tools are hard, woodwork is hard, I've been humbled but I'll keep going and try to improve.

Thanks for all the help, a few pictures below of the shavings I was getting, the edge I created on the plane iron, and also the terrible object I created.

Martin

 

[joncooper27]

Once you have been shown it is a lot easier.
First get the set up correct the frog the right opening, I was always taught should be able to shave the back of hand with the iron, get the chip breaker in the correct position. Look along the bottom of the plane and adjust so it’s level and you can just see the cutting edge. Once you get the feel of things you may need to adjust things on the plane depending on material.
I was taught a long time ago when I was trained as cabinet maker hopefully I’m roughly correct! I gave that up and now an engineer but still do my own stuff

 

[Ttrees]

Looks like you'll stay inclined to use a planing stop, if I were to guess.
On that bench, should you have a square of ply,
I'd consider using it for a planing stop, and using the dog oriented on the left instead or the right hand side of the vice + row on the far left.
That would allow you to plane closer to the edge and not reaching over it,
and not have to be careful of bench dogs, nor the batten moving around.

On the other hand you could make yer own dogs/dowels for a fancier cleat.

All the best
Tom

 

[wurglesnash357]

oak is remarkably hard when kiln dried. I reckon air dried timber is softer kiln drying altering the wood somewhat. Jacob is spot on though. get a shaving going and confidence will soar. walnut is much easier to plane btw.

The hardest oak I have ever worked with was an 'orphan' piece from the Mary Rose, which had spent some 450 years on the seabed. Dad was asked to make some presentation items from it, and I helped him. It was like working with iron - ordinary woodworking tools just wouldn't touch it!

Les

 

[Molynoox]

Looks like you'll stay inclined to use a planing stop, if I were to guess.
On that bench, should you have a square of ply,
I'd consider using it for a planing stop, and using the dog oriented on the left instead or the right hand side of the vice + row on the far left.
That would allow you to plane closer to the edge and not reaching over it,
and not have to be careful of bench dogs, nor the batten moving around.

On the other hand you could make yer own dogs/dowels for a fancier cleat.

All the best
Tom

Cool idea on the plywood.
I also think I will try and make some wooden dogs, only a matter of time before my tools hit the metal ones

 

[Molynoox]

Once you have been shown it is a lot easier.
First get the set up correct the frog the right opening, I was always taught should be able to shave the back of hand with the iron, get the chip breaker in the correct position. Look along the bottom of the plane and adjust so it’s level and you can just see the cutting edge. Once you get the feel of things you may need to adjust things on the plane depending on material.
I was taught a long time ago when I was trained as cabinet maker hopefully I’m roughly correct! I gave that up and now an engineer but still do my own stuff

I did manage to get the plane iron taking hairs off the back of my hand, however it was interesting that it wasn't until the strop stage that it was able to do this, sharpening up to 1000 grit wasnt enough.
Martin

 

[Ttrees]

Cool idea on the plywood.
I also think I will try and make some wooden dogs, only a matter of time before my tools hit the metal ones

Nothing beats a solid unmovable planing stop, as wide as the bench likely best,
Not having to plane towards a single point is the reason, and one can save themselves from faffing about if so, whilst concentrating on other things.

I consider a big square of ply unmovable in this regards, butted against the three dogs in the bench,
and also the fourth one on the vice jaw,
hopefully large enough so the position of your stop on the bench remains the same, i.e avoiding the vise, and planing where you are.
Besides that, it's good practice to have something at hand which can save you from chiseling or whatever into your benchtop.

All the best
Tom