Hand planes and knots

[transatlantic]

I use Japanese planes as I find them easier to use. I also use a lot of soft wood like pine as it is easily accessable. However, it also has a lot of knots. I try to avoid the knotty material when possible, but am often left with some. They're rock hard, and unless I really push the plane with some speed, the plane will stop at the knot and dig in. I'm pretty confident the plane is sharp as I get very nice results otherwise (cuts my hair etc).

So my question is, do you guys avoid planing knotty areas? perhaps just sand them? or do you just plane them as normal?

I suspect it's also removing the sharp edge on the blade by continually wacking into them?

 

[Woody2Shoes]

The Achilles heel of a Japanese plane, which is also a strength in most cases as you have found, is its relatively light weight.

The only way to sail through the kind of dead (or even live) knots you get in pine is if your plane has a bit of momentum - ie weight behind it. My 5 1/2 Bailey-pattern plane eats knots for breakfast!

I wonder if a more cambered blade on the Japanese plane might be of some limited help. Cheers, W2S

 

[MikeG.]

The Achilles heel of a Japanese plane, which is also a strength in most cases as you have found, is its relatively light weight.

The only way to sail through the kind of dead (or even live) knots you get in pine is if your plane has a bit of momentum - ie weight behind it. My 5 1/2 Bailey-pattern plane eats knots for breakfast!

I wonder if a more cambered blade on the Japanese plane might be of some limited help. Cheers, W2S

I wrote that almost word for word, W2S, then decided it wasn't worth the upset to Japanese plane users and didn't bother posting it. But you're right.

 

[transatlantic]

The Achilles heel of a Japanese plane, which is also a strength in most cases as you have found, is its relatively light weight.

The only way to sail through the kind of dead (or even live) knots you get in pine is if your plane has a bit of momentum - ie weight behind it. My 5 1/2 Bailey-pattern plane eats knots for breakfast!

I wonder if a more cambered blade on the Japanese plane might be of some limited help. Cheers, W2S

Interesting point! ...so what you're saying is I should cut a great big block out of my japanese plane and fill it with an equally sized block of cast iron! ... fantastic idea! :lol:

 

[AndyT]

Just possibly, if you only have one plane and it's a Japanese one, you haven't got enough tools. :wink:

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I use Japanese planes ... and unless I really push the plane with some speed ...

Push? Aren't they normally pulled? However, I'm not sure that pulling or pushing a plane is likely to have a significant helpful effect when dealing with knots as you describe. Slainte.

 

[transatlantic]

I use Japanese planes ... and unless I really push the plane with some speed ...

Push? Aren't they normally pulled? However, I'm not sure that pulling or pushing a plane is likely to have a significant helpful effect when dealing with knots as you describe. Slainte.

My smart arse reply would be this :

However, in reality, I did mean pull

 

[sunnybob]

The Achilles heel of a Japanese plane, which is also a strength in most cases as you have found, is its relatively light weight.

The only way to sail through the kind of dead (or even live) knots you get in pine is if your plane has a bit of momentum - ie weight behind it. My 5 1/2 Bailey-pattern plane eats knots for breakfast!

I wonder if a more cambered blade on the Japanese plane might be of some limited help. Cheers, W2S

Interesting point! ...so what you're saying is I should cut a great big block out of my japanese plane and fill it with an equally sized block of cast iron! ... fantastic idea! :lol:

Woody 2 shoes gave you an option, i think your reply steps beyond the bounds.

 

[shed9]

Lighter cuts and skew the plane where you can.

Treat as you would end grain I suppose is the best way I can describe it. My limited experience so take with a pinch.

 

[Bm101]

Out of interest is there an equivalent to the scrub plane then jack etc with Japanese planes? I don't recall seeing an equivalent but then I wouldn't have a clue so.... that's why I'm asking.
All the planes I have seen are pull type affairs set lightly (especially the competitions for micro thin shavings. Don't really get all that tbh... each to their own of course).
Sure there's more to it than that. Or is timber treated completely differently at early stage processing?

 

[thetyreman]

I skew the plane quite a bit in the areas around the knot, the best bet is to choose your pieces of wood very carefully with smaller knots in it, and redwood pine is different to spruce which has much harder knots, not all softwood is equal, and you can get some surprisingly hard pieces of pine.

 

[transatlantic]

Out of interest is there an equivalent to the scrub plane then jack etc with Japanese planes? I don't recall seeing an equivalent but then I wouldn't have a clue so.... that's why I'm asking.
All the planes I have seen are pull type affairs set lightly (especially the competitions for micro thin shavings. Don't really get all that tbh... each to their own of course).
Sure there's more to it than that. Or is timber treated completely differently at early stage processing?

Japanese planes can also be pushed, that is what the side handles are for. This guy seems to always push his
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSaXOM ... _-A/videos

I have also seen japanese scrub planes, same thing with a cambered blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-orvJnF0KZc

 

[woodbloke66]

I use Japanese planes as I find them easier to use. I also use a lot of soft wood like pine as it is easily accessable. However, it also has a lot of knots. I try to avoid the knotty material when possible, but am often left with some.

I'd be inclined to seek out better quality pine which is knot or almost knot free. It is out there, but you need to go to timber merchants or a decent builder's yard to find decent quality stuff - Rob

 

[custard]

I'd be inclined to seek out better quality pine

+1

It's one of woodworking's great paradoxes.

Experienced makers with the skills and equipment to handle iffy timber, usually work only with decent stuff. But newbies, who need all the help they can get, are often found struggling with the rubbish, cantankerous wood.

 

[transatlantic]

I'd be inclined to seek out better quality pine

+1

It's one of woodworking's great paradoxes.

Experienced makers with the skills and equipment to handle iffy timber, usually work only with decent stuff. But newbies, who need all the help they can get, are often found struggling with the rubbish, cantankerous wood.

I think that applies to the tools too!

 

[Trevanion]

I may be wrong, but weren't Japanese planes originally made to be used on native Japanese timbers? Of the Japanese timbers I've seen they've all been pretty consistent grained with very few knots, and a little softer on the tools than western timbers.

Western planes have been developed over centuries to deal with harder, knarly European, American and exotic hardwood and were being used all over the world during colonization, whilst Japanese planes have pretty much been a Japan-only thing until the last 10 years or so.

It's just the way I look at it.

 

[Bm101]

Japanese planes can also be pushed, that is what the side handles are for. This guy seems to always push his
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSaXOM ... _-A/videos

I have also seen japanese scrub planes, same thing with a cambered blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-orvJnF0KZc

Thanks. Not sure why I didn't think of bigger cambers tbh?!? :| Seen too many examples of Japanese woodworking videos held up as some quasi mystical nonsense at least in the West by some maybe and steered clear of it all. In practice I sure it's far different.
Bit like that Carl Douglas song tbh. When you think about it.
[youtube]jhUkGIsKvn0[/youtube]

Really? Everyone was Kung Fu fighting? All at the one time? Everyone?
That, and I find that and 'cats were fast as lightening' a bit hard to swallow to be honest while we're on the subject.
Cats are nippy.
Especially with a couple of lurchers after them.
But Lightning! 62million MPH?
Come on.
More Japanese Mysticism. Psssh. I'll be buying camelia oil next.

Just watched the first video and found his approach refreshingly no nonsense. I really enjoyed it and subbed his channel so thanks Trans.

Cheers now,
Chris

 

[Bm101]

I may be wrong, but weren't Japanese planes originally made to be used on native Japanese timbers? Of the Japanese timbers I've seen they've all been pretty consistent grained with very few knots, and a little softer on the tools than western timbers.

Western planes have been developed over centuries to deal with harder, knarly European, American and exotic hardwood and were being used all over the world during colonization, whilst Japanese planes have pretty much been a Japan-only thing until the last 10 years or so.

It's just the way I look at it.

This is what I was trying to say!
The first post not the daft second post.