hand plane

[lurcher]

hi guys how much do you put into lapping your plane soles my collection of users is rather varied
no3 record
no 4 stanley
no 4.1/2 record x 2
no 5.1/2 record
no 5.1/2 stanley
no 6 record
no 7 record
record block plane
43 wooden mouling planes
stanley no 50
and a couple more
i was just thinking about our edwardian and victorian brothers who in my mind created some realy top notch work without all our moden day ways wich we all strive to be perfect
in those days it must have been alot more chalenging to the craftsmen .
i lap my planes but not to the stage that some go to it just seems some are fanatical about it

 

[G S Haydon]

I did this for the first time recently on a #4. I did it with abrasive taped to a cast iron machine bed. Didn't take long. The key thing really is how fine do you want to work rather than one absolute. If you like supreme pattern maker type accuracy than I guess you will take longer about it, a general carpenter/joiner might never feel the need to ever flatten. My Dad has never flattened his #4 to my knowledge and on general joinery it has not posed a problem.

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't waste your time lapping any of them it's become a bit of a craze. It could be something to consider if you have a problematic plane but I'd wait and see.
If you really can't resist then 5 minutes or so on a 60 grit emery paper should do it. Then straight to say 400 for a few passes to take the sharpness off and make it slide smoothly - you don't have to polish it - that's another bit of the craze. :roll:

I....I did it with abrasive taped to a cast iron machine bed. .....

If you use paper backed emery paper it'll stick down flat just by flooding it with white spirit, which also helps with the process itself.

 

[yetloh]

The difference between most modern woodworkers, whether amateur or pro, and the craftsmen of 100 years ago is that we use hand tools for a really small proportion of our woodworking time. This almost constant use of hand tools by the old timers meant that they acquired extraordinary skill and sensitivity in their use which enabled them to produce excellent results with what we would now view as inferior tools and, in particular, inferior edges. The revolution of the last 20 or 30 years in the quality of top class hand tools has brought first class results within the reach of people like me who are prepared to work at it but on a very much part time amateur basis.

To answer your question about lapping plane soles, I have spent quite a lot of time in the past fettling old tools, but have long since given it up on the basis that I am lucky enough to be able to afford top quality tools and would rather spend what time I have making furniture than fettling old tools - satisfying though that is. As to how far you need to go, I am not convinced that perfection is necessary - 2 or 3 thou is, in my opinion, neither here nor there in the real world.

Jim

 

[Corneel]

Why do you think the old masters worked with inferior edges?

 

[Jacob]

Why do you think the old masters worked with inferior edges?

:lol:
I think they think sharpening wasn't invented until about 1990.

 

[G S Haydon]

Why do you think the old masters worked with inferior edges?

FWIW corneel I took the post to mean that many old tools became like a favorite pair of slippers, fitting the owner superbly but for someone new to those slippers they might feel a little strange. And although some of us take for granted the ability to get an appropriated edge for the job in hand or to revive an older tool many people find it easier to have a premium tool and a honing guide or jig to aid them.
I think there is know doubt there have been superb craftsman over the years who knew exactly how to get an appropriate edge for the work at hand.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think that fettling planes and lapping soles is something to do only if the plane needs it. The first step should always be to sharpen up the iron, set the plane up for the type of work you intend it to do, and try it out. If the plane does what you expect of it, leave well alone. If a try plane or smoothing plane will take the very finest of shavings from a piece of mild, straight-grained wood, and leave a surface like silk, they are doing almost all a plane should do, so leave well alone. For jack and fore planes, things are less critical; if they'll take a thickish shaving, they're doing what they're intended to do.

If a plane won't take a fine shaving, it may be because the sole is warped. If the finish of the casting is really rough, it can impede smoothness of operation. Only in these cases is it worth lapping the sole.

Quite significant improvements to performance to Bailey-type planes can be obtained by fitting a thicker cap-iron (some people swear by the Stay-Set type, or the Clifton two-piece), and a thicker iron can help as well. Ensuring that the shaving has a smooth path from tip of iron to final escape helps too - take off roughness from edges of mouth and especially front of cap-iron. Make sure there's nowhere for a chip to lodge and clog the plane - the fit of cap-iron to cutting iron needs to be spot-on. These points will help far more than lapping the sole.

 

[G S Haydon]

I wouldn't waste your time lapping any of them it's become a bit of a craze. It could be something to consider if you have a problematic plane but I'd wait and see.
If you really can't resist then 5 minutes or so on a 60 grit emery paper should do it. Then straight to say 400 for a few passes to take the sharpness off and make it slide smoothly - you don't have to polish it - that's another bit of the craze. :roll:

I....I did it with abrasive taped to a cast iron machine bed. .....

If you use paper backed emery paper it'll stick down flat just by flooding it with white spirit, which also helps with the process itself.

Tape was quick clean and easy

 

[mqbernardo]

i lapped my old number 4 1/2 and my number 5 and i hope not to have to done it again in the foreseeable future... hard work!

 

[Racers]

Hi

Wooden planes where flattened because of seasonal changes and wear.

Stick some coarse paper to something flat and give them a rub and look at the wear pattern, they should tell you how much work they need.

You have nearly as many planes as me!

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't waste your time lapping any of them it's become a bit of a craze. It could be something to consider if you have a problematic plane but I'd wait and see.
If you really can't resist then 5 minutes or so on a 60 grit emery paper should do it. Then straight to say 400 for a few passes to take the sharpness off and make it slide smoothly - you don't have to polish it - that's another bit of the craze. :roll:

I....I did it with abrasive taped to a cast iron machine bed. .....

If you use paper backed emery paper it'll stick down flat just by flooding it with white spirit, which also helps with the process itself.

Tape was quick clean and easy

Yebbut the wet makes it a lot faster - and it's flatter as there is no tape in the way so you can run off the edge of the paper and use the whole area. You can even do far ends of a long plane (if it's a bit concave) on two separate pieces at the same time. NB it's a good idea to store the paper (after it has dried) between boards to keep it flat.

 

[lurcher]

also have record router plane
record bullnose
stanley 92 shoulder plane
record 45
am only asking as i see so many people on the net who seem to go over the top with things i use and realy enjoy my planes i have only ever done my no 4 as it was in a state
i was at a boot sale on sunday and got slack and sellaars golden guinie brand 12" backsaw and a nice 7tpi
crosscutsaw in original sleeve for £8.00 very little use will make a space somware in the workshop i seem to have a thing for older tools also have a nice infill plane smoother in good condition it comes out alot very nice tool to use on most projects
bought a school workbench off ebay on monday it had 3 new woodwork vices plan is to make 3 benches with vice and sell on also in the deal was 2 48" record sash cramps £40 the lot bench is beech by axminster tools and the lad has 4 left
made me happy
pete

 

[bugbear]

Why do you think the old masters worked with inferior edges?

Agreed - the evidence from old workshops and tool boxes says that "in the old days" they used stones as fine as Charnley Forest, and that they certainly used loaded strops as a final, finer, stage. Indeed, I suspect the largest problem was the lack of high performance coarse stones.

Wooden planes, of course, can be "lapped" with a fine set jointer in second, so it wasn't a big issue.

BugBear

 

[Corneel]

Overal I completely agree with you Pete. It was just that little sentence that caught my eye. Sharp edges have been important for ever and the old masters knew very well how to make them sharp.

The level of sharpeness depends on the type of work of course. If you want to plane western red ceddar to a silky smooth surface, you need a sharper edge then when you are banging a mortice in some soft maple.

 

[Trafalgar]

hi guys how much do you put into lapping your plane soles my collection of users is rather varied
no3 record
no 4 stanley
no 4.1/2 record x 2
no 5.1/2 record
no 5.1/2 stanley
no 6 record
no 7 record
record block plane
43 wooden mouling planes
stanley no 50
and a couple more
i was just thinking about our edwardian and victorian brothers who in my mind created some realy top notch work without all our moden day ways wich we all strive to be perfect
in those days it must have been alot more chalenging to the craftsmen .
i lap my planes but not to the stage that some go to it just seems some are fanatical about it

I've never gone in for a whole lot of fettling, but of the planes that have passed through my hands over the years the ones that cut the sweetest all had flatter soles than the ones that did not cut quite as well. I have an old Record No. 4 that came slightly concave so I spot sanded the toe and heel and it planes beautifully. I think slight concavity is the easiest to correct because you can do just what I did - spot sand by hand checking frequently with a straightedge.

 

[MIGNAL]

From my experience of making and using wooden Planes any concavity just in front of the blade will make it under perform. There's a very good reason why the Japanese relieve the soles of their Planes using the hollowing technique/method.

 

[bugbear]

From my experience of making and using wooden Planes any concavity just in front of the blade will make it under perform. There's a very good reason why the Japanese relieve the soles of their Planes using the hollowing technique/method.

I suspect you're misunderstanding what Charles meant by concavity, given that he made the plane flatter by working the heel and toe.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

And I think you are misunderstanding my reason for posting. I was not responding directly to the comment by Charles. Just airing my experience with not so flat soles, especially those with the concavity just in front of the blade.
Hope that clarifies matters.

 

[bugbear]

And I think you are misunderstanding my reason for posting. I was not responding directly to the comment by Charles. Just airing my experience with not so flat soles, especially those with the concavity just in front of the blade.
Hope that clarifies matters.

A)You're quite right, and (B) (thank you) it does.

I've seen previous threads on this get very confused about the direction of the bulge when talking about concavity/convex on planes, and was trying to pre-empt.

BugBear