Hand held electric planer advice

[profchris]

When I made my brother's guitar I planed top, back and sides entirely by hand. It was tedious taking them down from around 5mm to around 2.5mm (the last bit, 2.5mm down to around 1.8mm is where the music comes out, that's definitely hand planing).

A back or front is around 450mm x 550mm, maybe a little less, and it's a surprising amount of work to plane off 2.5mm.

Would a hand held electric planer be any use for that, assuming I can fix the plate to a flat surface (masking tape and CA)? Or is that just too risky?

I'll be working African Mahogany (khaya), and it would be good to know how much tearout I could expect.

 

[rogxwhit]

You might consider making up a router carriage that spans the work? And use a wide, flat-bottomed bit. The router would have to be moveable on both x and y axes.

Would double-sided tape be an option for work-holding? If you could get it off afterwards? I wouldn't want the work to cup up in the middle whilst I was machining.

 

[Sideways]

I'd say too risky.
My old power plane will eat 3mm in a single swipe and is a rather intimidating tool. It's awesome for slimming down doors to fit the frame.
These really don't handle like an ordinary plane, you place them flat, take a controlled cut and try not to mess up the ends or you'll have snipe just like you can get with a planer thicknesser.

 

[rogxwhit]

If I might expand on the router carriage idea slightly, it doesn't have to be highly engineered, and neither does the router have to move on both axes simultaneously.

If you had something akin to the classic MOF177 / Trend T10 pattern, it's easy to source round steel bar for rods that could be long enough to span the work. Motion in the other direction could be on wooden skids bored to accept the bars ...

 

[screwpainting]

Well worth a watch, my old mate Lou, judge for yourself.

 

[deema]

If you are used to a hand plane a power plane is the work of the devil. I was taught to curl my fingers underneath the plane to act as a fence…..wonderful on hand planes…..not so good for power planes. It’s a habit for me, a muscle memory thing……I do have a power plane but rarely, very rarely if ever use it as I do like to be able to count to 10.

 

[profchris]

I'd say too risky.
My old power plane will eat 3mm in a single swipe and is a rather intimidating tool. It's awesome for slimming down doors to fit the frame.
These really don't handle like an ordinary plane, you place them flat, take a controlled cut and try not to mess up the ends or you'll have smipe just like you can get with a planer thicknesser.

Thanks for that. Specs seem to be cut depths from 3mm downwards in 0.5mm increments, but I was suspicious whether they'd be more precise than +/- 1mm in practice.

I'd already rejected the router idea (but thanks to those who suggested it) for three reasons:

1 I'd spend far too long making the jig, and probably not make it accurate enough on the first few attempts.

2 The jig would take up too much space.

3 Most conclusively, routers scare me witless! The baby router I use for binding channels is bad enough.

Unless someone persuades me that the newer planers are controllable enough, I have a plan B - set up a table outdoors and use my belt sander to hog off the excess. I've done that in the past ok, but it's horribly messy.

 

[rogxwhit]

I do like to be able to count to 10.

You could always take your socks off ...

 

[rogxwhit]

A low-tech router support can be very simple & quick to achieve with wood for most of its parts - the span in this case isn't huge. The cut is very controlled compared to the freehand plane or belt sander ideas.

Your material is quite thin and light, and a belt sander has considerable traction, so the work will have to be on a level surface & contained with shallow stops. Then you can grind away ... and grind away ... an hour or two of dusty 'fun' ...

Belt sanders tend to come with a bag, but a hookup to a vac is better. They're good for flattening but not the most efficient thing for material removal as in thicknessing - which is what you're at here.

Power tools used freehand lack the 'feel' of hand tools.

 

[hugov]

I'll give a shout out to the little Bosch 12V cordless planer (GHO 12V-20). It's about the same size as a no. 4 hand plane, comfortably used in one hand (though you should use both, for safety), with a 56mm wide cut. Like any power plane, it takes some getting used to in terms of technique and how to hold it / where to put the pressure so as to not gouge out more than you want (esp at the end of the cut as you go off the edge of the workpiece). With some practice I found I could get reliably good results without gouging, and take cuts as small as 0.1mm. Compared to a hand plane, I find the power plane easier to get a smooth finish on figured wood / wood with varying grain directions, and generally get almost no tearout. Conversely, you don't get that glassy/polished finish you can get with a sharp hand plane with the grain, although if you're sanding anyway it doesn't make any difference.
Edit: by gouging I mean snipe.

 

[Flynnwood]

Small comment from experience;
Make sure to let your finger (s) stay out of the way until the power planer stops spinning.

 

[profchris]

I'll give a shout out to the little Bosch 12V cordless planer (GHO 12V-20). It's about the same size as a no. 4 hand plane, comfortably used in one hand (though you should use both, for safety), with a 56mm wide cut. Like any power plane, it takes some getting used to in terms of technique and how to hold it / where to put the pressure so as to not gouge out more than you want (esp at the end of the cut as you go off the edge of the workpiece). With some practice I found I could get reliably good results without gouging, and take cuts as small as 0.1mm. Compared to a hand plane, I find the power plane easier to get a smooth finish on figured wood / wood with varying grain directions, and generally get almost no tearout. Conversely, you don't get that glassy/polished finish you can get with a sharp hand plane with the grain, although if you're sanding anyway it doesn't make any difference.
Edit: by gouging I mean snipe.

That's a lot more encouraging, thank you.

Have you used it to plane across the grain (or at 45 degrees or so)? That's common in luthiery using hand planes on figured wood, reduces tearout.

 

[TRITON]

They come in different sizes, you aren't limited to 82mm

Triton TPL180 - 180mm(£245)

Makita 1806B - 170mm(£450)

Makita KP312 - 312mm(£2200)

 

[Ttrees]

That's a lot more encouraging, thank you.

Have you used it to plane across the grain (or at 45 degrees or so)? That's common in luthiery using hand planes on figured wood, reduces tearout.

Anyone getting tearout has/is simply being misled regarding how the cap iron should be setup on a smoother, end of.
No need to be doing any of that malarkey when the cap iron is honed @50 degrees,
and if that ain't working, then simply more influence required.
i.e closer to the edge, or making it steeper.

Having the ability to plane where you want is the key here. i.e away from the clamp.

Look up David W (D_W, here) or Derek Cohen to name but two.
Anyone who say's otherwise simply is still in the woods about using a double iron hand plane, and best avoided.
Forget about having a tight mouth as that will stop the cap iron from being able to be set close enough, unless you file the wear on the plane, which doesn't need be done for the job, and will only confuse matters.

All the best
Tom

 

[thetyreman]

what about using a scrub plane? then follow up with a smoother.

 

[Ttrees]

You can still hog off lots of material with a panel plane or other plane with greater camber set to take influenced shavings,
should you even need to use it for that little amount of material.

A walk in the park provided the underside of the work will actually lay flat on the bench.

 

[Ttrees]

There's likely many many ways one could approach the hard part, which if not surfacing beforehand the cut, one could try....
i.e to stop the work deflecting.
I'd say it might well be worth trying sandwiching the material to see the contact,
with say suitable float glass, but the same could be done with any rigid thing
and a bit more work.
If stuck then some crayon or graphite or even burnishing would be a solution.

Sorta like below but on both sides would get the job done, whilst using suitable deep reach calipers, which can be as simple as two bolts through a frame.

That's just one method for getting consistent thickness which might be worth trying.

 

[profchris]

I've built around 60 instruments with hand tools, so I've worked through everything posted since I last commented.

1. Of course I know how to use a cap iron. But hogging off 2.5mm that way takes forever! The cap iron limits the shaving thickness. Planing cross grain allows much thicker shavings with minimal tearout.

2. A scrub is quick, but I have two issues. First is holding the work - I need to scrub at different angles, which means a lot of time repositioning. Second, heavy tearout, especially on figured wood. I can't risk scrubbing down to even 3mm if I might get tearout deeper than 1 mm. So I can scrub from, say, 5mm to 3.5 mm, but after that it's slow going.

I'm looking for something to reduce the grunt work. The proper tool is a drum sander, but I haven't the space and making 2 or 3 a year doesn't justify the cost.

So far my options seem to be belt sander (40 grit belt should make dust pretty fast) or a decent hand electric planer used with great caution.

The final 1mm or so is removed using hand planes with a close set cap iron and/or card scraper, with lots of pausing to flex and assess the plate. I'm not trying to achieve a consistent thickness, because each square cm of the plate needs individual attention.

It's the first 2.5 mm which I'd like to remove with least effort.

 

[Ttrees]

2.5mm to remove should only take but a few swipes, and with a pair of planes
would be light work.

The hard part is getting the plates flat enough not to deflect, as that could be your issue when you mention the cap iron restricting your depth of cut,
should you be using your plane to find high spots rather than knowing where they are and producing the same thickness shaving as above, but with cutter advanced only half as much.
Either that, or your using a tight mouth.

Those are the only ways I could think of this seeming slow or hard work, especially so for a few instruments a year, unless you're talking about a huge dual drum sander even though a super surfacer would be the nicest machine for the job.

Much nicer than feeding though a drum sander adjusting and possibly fighting with the thing and possibly constantly cleaning the abrasive, should you decide to use some cocobolo or whatever oily timbers like that,
plus having to deal with the dust what one could be allergic to.

A hand plane or two makes sense to me, and sounds like you can step things up a notch with what you might have already.

Tom

 

[Sideways]

If you are used to a hand plane a power plane is the work of the devil. I was taught to curl my fingers underneath the plane to act as a fence…..wonderful on hand planes…..not so good for power planes. It’s a habit for me, a muscle memory thing……I do have a power plane but rarely, very rarely if ever use it as I do like to be able to count to 10.

I've literally scorched the side of my finger from this, rubbing on the end of the cutterblock at lord knows how many thousand rpm. I didn't notice until afterward. A scary tool, even with the side fence and cutter guard fitted. Keep hands on the handles !