Guns,guns, and more Guns

[Noel]

Only if it's a private sale.

A FFL still has to do a background check.

A gun collector/unlicensed dealer can set up a stall at a gun fair, local civic centre or wherever and sell weapons to any random aspiring Rambo that happens to walk past. No checks, no nothing. Something like 25% of gun sales are carried out this way.
Another sadly silly aspect of US gun sales is the 3 day loophole. If a licenced dealer carries out a background check and hears nothing by the 3rd day Rambo gets the gun, long gone by the time background results arrive on the 4th/5th day etc.
There's a few more ways, such as marriage/bearing a child, that enable gun sales without the proper security protocol.

 

[D_W]

As I understand it a background check to enable ownership of a firearm in the US is merely checking that the person has no prior convictions.

Have a quick read of the restrictions (or lack of them) in some states here … some seem to reference no background check required.

https://www.guns.com/news/2021/04/01/the-top-10-most-gun-friendly-states
Whatever the detail is I think we can agree that it is substantially easier to buy a gun in the US than the UK.

Generally no criminal record for violent, felony or drug crimes and no involuntary mental commitment. The other somewhat humorous question is whether or not you've ever renounced your citizenship.

 

[D_W]

A gun collector/unlicensed dealer can set up a stall at a gun fair, local civic centre or wherever and sell weapons to any random aspiring Rambo that happens to walk past. No checks, no nothing. Something like 25% of gun sales are carried out this way.
Another sadly silly aspect of US gun sales is the 3 day loophole. If a licenced dealer carries out a background check and hears nothing by the 3rd day Rambo gets the gun, long gone by the time background results arrive on the 4th/5th day etc.
There's a few more ways, such as marriage/bearing a child, that enable gun sales without the proper security protocol.

What percentage of crimes are committed with gun show loophole guns? I don't think it's very high.

 

[Noel]

What percentage of crimes are committed with gun show loophole guns? I don't think it's very high.

No idea.
One is too many.

 

[artie]

Whatever the detail is I think we can agree that it is substantially easier to buy a gun in the US than the UK.

Lest you think I am arguing for the sake of it I am not.

I agree it is much easier to legally purchase a firearm in the USA.

I have been told but can't prove that it is extremely easy to buy a gun in the UK

As I understand it a background check to enable ownership of a firearm in the US is merely checking that the person has no prior convictions.

Have a quick read of the restrictions (or lack of them) in some states here … some seem to reference no background check required.

https://www.guns.com/news/2021/04/01/the-top-10-most-gun-friendly-states

I believe mental problems are considered as well.

Those stats are very interesting.

Those are the top 10 gun friendly states yet in six of them only a little over 30% are gun owners.

The background checks referred to in those statistics are universal checks mandated by 22 states. Which means that in those states if you want to sell your 30-06 to your neighbour you have to do a background check on him first.

In the ten states mentioned you can do a private sale without a background check but you can't rock up to walmart and buy a Glock 17 without one.

 

[D_W]

No idea.
One is too many.

That's very limp language, in the sense that it ignores the reality of numerical exposure. If you want to solve a problem, you solve it at the core. One is too many is fine in a sample of 100, but not 350 million.

I see that 77% of crimes in the USA related to guns are stolen or similar circumstances. The gun show fascination is ignoring material factors. The reason it's not a priority is because it's a tiny minority of actual crime and more than half of sales are through vendors. Only a fraction of the other half are in no background states.

You literally could probably create an initiative to keep fathers in the home and generate a greater effect.

 

[artie]

Easy enough thing is just shoot him in the back of the head. No risk.
He could be carrying a fully automatic assault rifle, but it's no good unless the would be perpetrator is facing his victim.

You are absolutely right, but how many even in America would risk a murder charge to steal someones wallet or a days takings?

 

[artie]

Another sadly silly aspect of US gun sales is the 3 day loophole. If a licenced dealer carries out a background check and hears nothing by the 3rd day Rambo gets the gun,

I don't see how this is silly. Someone needs a gun. Nobody objects within three days, the sale goes ahead.
Please don't put a emotional slant on this. It's not necessarily Rambo. It could just as easily be a frail old lady living on her own.
BTW it's not a loophole, it's the law.

long gone by the time background results arrive on the 4th/5th day etc.

Not long gone by any means. The record of the sale is there along with id details if they flouted the rules they can be brought to book.

There's a few more ways, such as marriage/bearing a child, that enable gun sales without the proper security protocol.

Would you mind elaborating on that?

 

[woodieallen]

Well, it’s a common knowledge to some, that selling arms to Mexican cartel it’s a common practise by Democrats officials, for steady supply of heroine transported to Mexico from Afghanistan. All made under diplomatic cover.

these shouted loudest not to build wall to stop uncontrollable smuggling operations, including human trafficking and ammo. There are a common ways to undermine criminal organisations - it’s called profitability of enterprise.

Well, it's not common knowledge to me and so would you like to share your sources? Any actual references out there to support what you've written ?

 

[Noel]

That's very limp language, in the sense that it ignores the reality of numerical exposure. If you want to solve a problem, you solve it at the core. One is too many is fine in a sample of 100, but not 350 million.

I see that 77% of crimes in the USA related to guns are stolen or similar circumstances. The gun show fascination is ignoring material factors. The reason it's not a priority is because it's a tiny minority of actual crime and more than half of sales are through vendors. Only a fraction of the other half are in no background states.

You literally could probably create an initiative to keep fathers in the home and generate a greater effect.

I've come across this attitude in pro gun Americans in the past. It's almost NRA text/narrative - small numbers, doesn't really matter, let's ignore it. Or guns are stolen from responsible owners, nothing to do with us.
Many countries that have experienced a mass shooting incident react immediately. Laws and regulations are changed and whole heartedly supported by the public. In the States it's been a case of offering "prayers" and doing nothing.

PS - The background check on the individual who murdered 9 at the Charleston church shooting didn't arrive back within the 3 day time limit.

 

[woodieallen]

......

I have been told but can't prove that it is extremely easy to illegally buy a gun in the UK

....

Just added the qualifier that you accidentally left off. You have to go through a lot of hoops to buy one legally.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Lest you think I am arguing for the sake of it I am not.

I agree it is much easier to legally purchase a firearm in the USA.

I have been told but can't prove that it is extremely easy to buy a gun in the UK


I believe mental problems are considered as well.

Those stats are very interesting.

Those are the top 10 gun friendly states yet in six of them only a little over 30% are gun owners.

The background checks referred to in those statistics are universal checks mandated by 22 states. Which means that in those states if you want to sell your 30-06 to your neighbour you have to do a background check on him first.

In the ten states mentioned you can do a private sale without a background check but you can't rock up to walmart and buy a Glock 17 without one.

The number of guns known to be in circulation in the US probably means it’s easier for one to be obtained illegally there than in the UK. There are undoubtedly those in the criminal fraternity in the UK who can readily obtain access to a gun and it’s a known fact that guns get passed around criminal groups. There is also a problem with replica guns being activated but I would expect most criminals recognise that the extra risk of getting involved with guns makes it not worthwhile.

 

[D_W]

I've come across this attitude in pro gun Americans in the past. It's almost NRA text/narrative - small numbers, doesn't really matter, let's ignore it. Or guns are stolen from responsible owners, nothing to do with us.
Many countries that have experienced a mass shooting incident react immediately. Laws and regulations are changed and whole heartedly supported by the public. In the States it's been a case of offering "prayers" and doing nothing.

PS - The background check on the individual who murdered 9 at the Charleston church shooting didn't arrive back within the 3 day time limit.

You can try to generalize all you want. I don't share your obsessions.

 

[Noel]

I don't see how this is silly. Someone needs a gun. Nobody objects within three days, the sale goes ahead.
Please don't put a emotional slant on this. It's not necessarily Rambo. It could just as easily be a frail old lady living on her own.
BTW it's not a loophole, it's the law.


Not long gone by any means. The record of the sale is there along with id details if they flouted the rules they can be brought to book.


Would you mind elaborating on that?

Think it's called the "Boyfriend Loophole", have a look.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Well, it's not common knowledge to me and so would you like to share your sources? Any actual references out there to support what you've written ?

It was called “Fast and Furious” (that’s not a joke) and allegedly happened about ten years ago. From memory Arizona gun stores were told to let Mexicans buy weapons if they were heading back over the border and they were supposed to be tracked to get to the heart of the drug cartels. @D_W being a local probably recalls better than me!

Edit - sorry @D_W I should have said American and not implied you were from Arizona!

 

[D_W]

That's accurate, but I'm sure the feds do strange things to study the effect. One or a couple of the guns were used to shoot us law enforcement or something and it exploded into a political football.

Obama's ag proceeded to make conflicting statements under oath, but there's no real penalty to that when you're a presidential appointee.

 

[Noel]

You can try to generalize all you want. I don't share your obsessions.

Case rested.

 

[D_W]

Case rested.

I work as an applied mathematician. Significance in numbers is a meaningful thing. I don't parrot information from other sources or get caught up in hypothetical perfect solutions. It's nonsense unless actual problem solving of significance occurs first.

 

[RobinBHM]

What I find strange, however, is the idea that the US Constitution is written in stone

I find it amusing to see Americans screaming “you can not amend the 2nd amendment”

 

[Jacob]

Merry Christmas and a happy new year!