Gripping Stock On The Table Saw

[wabbitpoo]

I have just purchased my first decent table saw. I have been researching tips on using it safely and have come across the Gripper

Grrripper

and I was wondering what you guys thought of it - they appear to advocate removing the blade guard and riving knife, which I was lead to believe are what help to prevent injury from kickback, among other reasons.

Thoughts please.

 

[Racers]

Bruce Wang :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wouldn't have one my self.


Pete

 

[wabbitpoo]

What method do you use then?

 

[vally bar]

What a load of crap

 

[Hardwood66]

Make a few push sticks

 

[JakeS]

they appear to advocate removing the blade guard and riving knife, which I was lead to believe are what help to prevent injury from kickback, among other reasons.

Given that it seems to be an American company, it's probably more that they presume that their target audience has already removed the blade guard and riving knife, if their saw even came with those features in the first place!

I'm afraid my first thought - other than the above - is that if my push-stick control were as bad as the example in the video, I wouldn't be using a table saw in the first place... no fancy safety devices are going to save you if you're really unfortunate enough to not have fine motor control to start with.

To rephrase: it looks like a neat solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.

(I guess that if you do find yourself cutting a lot of 1/8" cubes, then it's probably actually a really great device that you can't do without, but I dare say that's probably not a task most people find themselves up against that often.)

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

I think it looks to be a good tool, I for one do cut a lot of very small stock for making stringing and **** beading. The grrripper looks like it would be a useful tool. With the stock being gripped on both sides of the blade and with a guard over the top you would have no need for a riving knife or blade guard fixed to the saw.

 

[MickCheese]

I think for small pieces then this looks good. Minimum width of cut looks like 3mm.

Apparently sold over here by the http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/ but that is such a dreadful website I cannot find it or a price.

Mick

 

[Steve Maskery]

There should never be any need to use an unguarded saw, and ripping should never be attempted without a riving knife, I don't care how big or small the workpiece.
If the original guard is unsuitable, you should find alternative ways of guarding or use a different machine (eg bandsaw) to do the job.
S

 

[Wildman]

I actually quite like the look of the grripper, it does take the place of the guard and also prevents kickback. On the coronet the blade guard is attached to the riving knife, which must be removed when underscoring plywood or cutting partway through turning blanks. We do not all have massive saws or deep throad bandsaws so for us lesser mortals it seems a safer solution. If it is deemed not yo be safe can someone explain why please.

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you have to remove the crown guard, then another guard should be substituted, one that does not rely on the RK for support.

The big risk with removing the guard and RK is that once it is off, there is more chance of it not being put back on. "Ooh I only want to make one cut", "Just a quickie". It's that one time that something goes wrong and the operator gets hurt. Remember, no-one who cut off their fingers on a TS ever thought it was going to happen to them. They thought they were in control. After all, they had 20 years experience and never had an accident.

I't simply not necessary to use an unguarded blade.

And to get back to the gripper, although it may reduce the risk of kickback, I'm not convinced that it eliminates that risk. And if it did happen, my fingers would be far too close to the blade for comfort. A well-designed pushstick, used with featherboards, seems to me to be a far more satisfactory approach.

I do think they could be used successfully on a surface planer, though.

S

 

[woodbloke]

There should never be any need to use an unguarded saw, and ripping should never be attempted without a riving knife, I don't care how big or small the workpiece.
If the original guard is unsuitable, you should find alternative ways of guarding or use a different machine (eg bandsaw) to do the job.
S

Exactly...Steve sums it up in two sentences. A device clearly aimed at the 'murrican market where their altitudes to elfn'safety seem a lot more cavalier than this side of the big wet - Rob

 

[wcndave]

You dont need to remove the riving knife to use this. And i agree you shouldn't.

I have one and find it great for many things. More widely and distributed pressure than a stick, can do thin pieces, easier for long pieces where pushing at back forces front up etc...

There do seem to be manufacturers selling items which offer to make things safer, and in pushing this imply that it makes it totally safe. Saw stop, grrrripper etc.

However given that a woodworker generally operates at a fixed level of safety built in to their psychie, and that one does not "drop" this level just cos you are using some other tool, then i would say this does make certain operations safer, and some operations easier. Just don't reduce your levels of safety and common sense as a result.

Check out matt's basement workshop, and the woodwhisperer videos on the grrrripper, understanding that you will use a RK ;-)

I enjoy mine, and am glad to have it. (and i have a large collection of regularly used pushsticks too )

 

[Eric The Viking]

Three points of contact is a bit worrisome: unless both the stock and the device are flat, something won't be gripping as well as the other two bits.

I can't see why short fences, low fences, SUVA guards and riving knives, all used as appropriate, aren't much better than this, both for safety and operation.

But that won't stop it selling, I've no doubt.

 

[wabbitpoo]

After watching several videos now I have moved the fence so it does not go past the blade by more than a tooth or two, hopefully reducing further the chances of kick back. I am in the process of creating some more push sticks too, with greater contact areas than the plasticky one that Makita bundled.

 

[andersonec]

I think it looks to be a good tool, I for one do cut a lot of very small stock for making stringing and **** beading. The grrripper looks like it would be a useful tool. With the stock being gripped on both sides of the blade and with a guard over the top you would have no need for a riving knife or blade guard fixed to the saw.

No matter how you 'grip' the work, the lack of a riving knife may allow the work to twists into the rear rising teeth of the blade it only needs to do this just one fraction and if it does then the action starts.

Andy

 

[wabbitpoo]

I wonder why no-one has invented a kind of roller device which sits behind the blade and which keeps work from being forced up by the blade as it emerges from the table? That would further help reduce the risks, surely.

 

[Steve Maskery]

They have. I forget what it's called, but such a dvice does exist. But it's only any use for workpieces over a certain width. Very narrow ones are too narrow and they are the ones most likely to move the most and go flying.
S

 

[Benchwayze]

... no need for a riving knife or blade guard fixed to the saw.

:shock:
Ummmm! I don't agree Percy.
It all looks extremely 'iffie' to me.

The only way I would ever work without a crown guard is with a cross-cut sled; with a built in guard over the top of the sled. But I'd sill want a riving knife. That gripper wouldn't stop a cut closing if the wood decided it wanted to!

I decided against a table-saw in the end. I don't have space for a proper cast-iron job anyway, so I finally went for a quality track-saw!

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Just a bit of a gimmick, stick with the guard and riving knife and use push sticks